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Rule

With all the talk about Superglue, is anyone using it for ferrules, or have any experience to share with the group?

I used it to glue down the tabs on one rod, which has been used hard for over two years now, and still there's no crack at the base of the ferrule wraps.  (Chris Obuchowski)

    I made the mistake of gluing the ferrules on my first 3 rods with Devcon 2 ton, all 3 of which failed miserably  within a few months. I wanted to use one of the rods and did a quick and dirty repair job with super glue gel, which held up for about a year before it failed, too. I think it's too hard and brittle for ferrule use, I will stick to Accraglas gel for mine.  (John Channer)

      I have heard several people mention failures of Devcon 2 ton epoxy.   What I don't understand is why it fails.  I've used it on about 10-12 rods with no problem.  I've stopped using it because I don't understand why it works or doesn't work.   Incidentally, I clean the inside of ferrules with the Birchwood Casey cleaner, and scour the insides so they are fairly rough before apply  the epoxy.   (Bob Milardo)

        IMHO,  these are the keys for a good epoxy joint where one of the surfaces is metal.  SOP for epoxying golf club heads to shafts is to roughen the bore of the club head and the outside of the shaft, then degrease with naphtha or acetone  before gluing.  Since that joint is subject to more stress than about anything else I know of, I follow the same procedure when I use epoxy on ferrules (mostly use Pliobond anymore).  So far, so good.  (Todd Enders)

          I use a Dremel tool with a burr, so that there are actual small grooves on the interior of the ferrule.  I've also gotten pipe cleaners to clean out the inside (with acetone) of ferrules too small to allow Q-tips.  (Henry Mitchell)

        I've only had one failure, and I believe that was because the glue may have been old.  (Mike Canazon)

          Regular epoxy fails because it's too brittle.  It will hold for a while but not over the long term.  (Rich Margiotta)

        I just reset a ferrule and I used JB Weld ... I wonder if this is ok?  (Ron Hossack)

        Please do not quote me on the details, but I remember a thread on this from a while back.  The gist of it was:

        • One of the group members (sorry, no memory of the name) made up a series of rods using different glue types.  I do not remember all the types, but 2 part epoxy and rubber cement were two of the types.
        • They subjected the rods to temperature changes that would be considered realistic to the membership of the group.  I forget the upper extreme (probably Texas summer car interiors), but I remember that the lower temperatures were based on baggage compartment temperatures on a major aircraft (cold enough for your average Canadian fall fishing trip and possibly lower).
        • He and his son then performed various ferrule-stressing acts (like bumping the ferrules together as may happen in a rod tube in an aircraft hold, pulling them apart etc.).

        If I remember correctly, the 2 part epoxies has a tendency to shatter and the ferrules came off very easily.  I seem to remember that the rubber cement held well, as did PU glue.  Details are hazy - they are likely in the rodmaker's archive and likely in mine, but I have just moved to the Yukon and my personal PC is in pieces right now.  When I get it pieced together, I will search for my notes if you like.

        At Corbett Lake last year, Chris O (sorry Chris, not going to try your surname tonight  :)  did a demo on the rubber cement approach.  Simple and apparently effective.  I could not locate the particular type of rubber cement he used in Calgary and used a different brand on rod #1 and the female came loose after a few weeks of extensive fishing in rain, snow,  sleet and cold Alberta rivers and ponds last year.  Basically, abused well.  Maybe the glue, more likely my technique.

        As  for the  ferrule prep,  there is much in the list archives on that too - from triangular files to small sandblasting rigs.

        Does that offer some insight?  (Greg Dawson)

          I used, and still use on all my rods, Pliobond.

          Below is the trial done by AJ Thramer, who has probably built more rods than any other living rodmaker (over a thousand by now, by himself).  (Chris Obuchowski)

          --------------------------------------

          Noting that most of the ferrule gluing discussion lacked much of an experimental basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces of cane with a simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined) and see how hard it was to pull them apart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) and myself pulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as I could come up with.

          From strongest to weakest:

          1&2 Pliobond:  Glued without roughing up the interior of the NS tube not roughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing time with the interior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr

          couldn’t get either one of these to budge

          3 Ferrule-Tite Interior of the sleeve roughed up with the burr- a slight slip without a pin. Reheated the sleeve and pinned- no movement

          I would hasten to add that we were pulling for all we were worth when the cane came out an 1/8"

          4 Devcon 5 minute, sleeve roughed up: No slippage, BUT!! to test a theory I have heard about and previously wondered about. The effect of freezing for

          24 hours in a 0 degrees freezer and then rapping on the sleeve with a 4 oz steel hammer (not hard enough to dent though) it pulled off. Think of an unheated cargo compartment on an airplane....

          Of course UPS would never subject the item to any such brutal treatment...

          5 Standard ferrule cement (Gudebrod): Pulled much easier than the Ferrule-Tite. When pinned we were able to get it to break the pin.

          Some other information - The only one that pulled readily was the frozen Devcon, it was still a firm pull to get it to come apart though. All of the other methods would be sufficient under normal circumstances. The low temp of the Gudebrod would let go in a hot car type of situation(not involving a Dodge 440 six pack). I think that the Ferrule-Tite would be better but it still was much softer at 170 degrees or so. The Golfsmith was not subjected to the 'freeze' test. But I have not heard of the same persistent (10-12 years now) rumor that has plagued both the 2 ton and the 5 minute Devcon.

          Legal ramblings - In case there are any guys who are playing lawyerball....THESE TESTS ARE COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE AND REPRESENT THE EXPERIENCE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIKELY A COMPLETE DOLT IN THE PROPER APPLICATION AND USE OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS TESTED AND CAN IN NO WAY BE RELIED UPON FOR ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT INTERESTING DINNER CONVERSATION WHEN YOUR BORING RELATIVES SHOW UP FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER AND YOU NEED TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE AND YOUR BROTHER IN LAW DOESN'T BIRD HUNT! YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY! IN NO CASE WILL FERRULES THAT HAVE BEEN APPLIED USING THE NO DOUBT FLAWED DATA WILL BE ACCEPTED FOR REPAIR.

          AJ Thramer

            I've been using Pliobond since the Corbett Lake gathering in 2004, when Chris showed us how to "flash" the glue. I think Denver Dave has the process described on his web site. It holds as well or better than the epoxies and PU's, and you can remove the ferrule with heat application if necessary.  (Tom Bowden)

            Interesting. Unfortunately for us, there are at least 3 different Golfsmith epoxy brews.  (Jim Lowe)

              You want the 24-hour stuff.  (Jerry Madigan)

              AJ's tests are very limited as far as real world conditions go. They are a good data point, but what not really representative of what happens at the ferrule joint. His tests examine the strength of newly cured glues subjected to lateral forces. The real test would be to subject the ferrules to repeated flexes over time. The issue is not how well a glue will hold when pulled straight on when new, but how well it holds up to the stresses of many multiple flexes over a prolonged period of time, which puts a totally different type of strain on it.

              I think you want a glue that dries to a consistency that is not "rock hard"  to hold up to these conditions. Pliobond, Acraglas, Golfsmith, Jeff Wagner's Powerbond, and the old urethane bond (the best stuff ever, IMO) are some examples. Contact cement is an interesting choice too, similar to Pliobond.  (Rich Margiotta)

Rule

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