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Who makes and sells ferrules out there besides the usual CSE, REC, and Golden Witch?  (Mike Fennell)

    Other than the few dozen of us who make them out of bar stock (and in my case quite poorly) my research shows:

    1.  Norman Agutters

    2.  A guy in England who sells through Belvoirdale

    3.  Tony Larson (a perennial favorite)

    4.  The Jenkins' have a stash of Orvis ferrules

    5.  Rick's Rods has NOS ferrules of various Mid-American makers' ferrules

    6.  I think that list members Dave Henney and Dave Collyer have stashes that they sell from (pardon me guys if you don't)

    7.  I've heard that you can beg them from Orvis  (Joe West)

    Rush River Rods

    Very nice ferrules halfway between a standard and truncated length. Best price I know of.  (Jeff Fultz)

    Rush River Rods makes a real nice ferrule, both Super Z style, and step down.  (Mark Wendt)

    AJ Thramer makes excellent ferrules.  I've been using them for the past 10-15 rods and am very happy!  (Bill Taylor)

    I built two 7' Sir D's, used Golden Witch field grade on one and Rush River on the other. Tony's were easier to lap and fit. One note of caution, you need to clean the them out!  (Pete Van Schaack)

    Has anyone tried the Field Grade Golden Witch ferrules? It seems Russ has stopped carrying my favorite Bellinger ferrules. I'd be interested in anyone's input.  (Shawn Pineo)

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I have noticed that "Field Grade" ferrules seem harder to lap, that is require more elbow grease.  Is this because they are a lower % of nickel.  Anybody know?  (Darrol Groth)

    I have had somewhat a similar experience with one of the name brand ferrules, however, I have not had any problems at all with Rush River Rods ferrules.  I have converted entirely over to Tony's ferrules.  (Joe Byrd)

      Me too.  That is, almost exclusively.  The exception, of course, was this older set that I have had in the drawer.  You just can't beat Tony's stuff.  (Bill Harms)

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The trout season began here (UK)  two days ago and the winds are howling, the snow keeps falling and the rivers are high and brown so I am not fishing and have time to raise the  following question:

Who are the remaining ferrule  suppliers  we  have  left (worldwide)?

The ones I am familiar with are as follows;

US based

  • Bellinger (CSE ferrules)
  • CSE direct
  • REC
  • Goldenwitch/ARCANE
  • Rush River (Tony Larsen)

and

  • Agutters in the UK
  • Chapmans ( REC agent) in the UK

The Germans and Italians have an active rodmaking community so I’m sure there must be sources elsewhere in the world ?

Who else out there is making and selling ferrules commercially as a stand alone product ?  (Paul Blakley)

    I have been using Classic Sporting Enterprises since I began making rods.  (Steve Weiss)

    Who's brand does Snake Brand sell, or are those made in house?  (Scott Bearden)

      I do not see ferrules listed at Snake Brand's web site.  Perhaps I missed them.  (Harry Boyd)

      Mike told me that the ones he sent last October were made by Bailey Woods.  (Don Green)

        Bailey Woods owns Classic Sporting  Enterprises.  (Steve Weiss)

    Dave LeClair used to make and sell ferrules (darn nice ones at that), but I don't know if he still does. Perhaps he'll speak up if he does.  (John Channer)

      I don't make ferrules like I used to. Mainly what I make now are reproduction ferrules for rods like Dickerson, Leonard, Payne, etc. I don't have the time anymore to "make ferrules" like Bailey and the rest do. Too much restoration work out there to do. (Dave LeClair)

    I still make them. (Tony Young)

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Anyone have Bailey Wood's phone #?  (Dave Norling)

    It's (802)525-3623.  (Paul Julius)

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I am looking for some inexpensive ferrules to use on prototype rods.

Anyone use the chrome plated brass ferrules from Netcraft?  (Gary Nicholson)

    I have used them on PMQ’s.  They have all fit good for me.  No moisture cap.  Cheap.  Have landed nice fish using them.  I would think they would probably be OK for prototype rods.  One of the drawbacks I see would be the fact that the inside diameter of the female and the male differ so the taper would need to account for a step down rod.  (Greg Reeves)

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I'm looking for Titanium or Stainless ferrules. I know Arcane makes Titanium, but apparently only one size. I will need multiple sizes. Does anyone know of anyone making them that could make me up a set for a 3 or 4 piece rod once the sizes are determined?

Same question for Stainless steel?  (Mike Shay)

    Stainless to stainless "galls" so this material is a not suitable for ferrules.  (Paul Blakley)

      The fix is called "lubrication". Lubricate with candle wax and you won't have a problem. In fact, all ferrules should be lubricated with candle wax regardless of the material they are made out of.  (Jerry Drake)

      So all the Orvis Shooting Stars had galled stainless ferrules?  Not trying to be facetious here at all!  (Mike Shay)

        I am serious, stainless to stainless is a no go.  (Paul Blakley)

          I believe the Orvis Shooting Star boasted Monel ferrules, whatever that metal may be.  I used to own and fish an 8 1/2' model.  The ferrule fit was quite good.  (Reed Guice)

            Monel is a trademark of Special Metals Corporation for a series of nickel alloys, primarily  composed of  nickel (up to 67%) and copper, with some iron and other trace elements. Monel was created by David H. Browne, chief metallurgist for International Nickel Co. Monel alloy 400 is binary alloy of the same proportions of nickel and copper as is found naturally in the nickel ore from the Sudbury (Ontario) mines. Monel was named for company president Ambrose

            Monel, and patented in 1906 ( U.S. patent 811,239).

            Uses:

            Marine applications

            Musical instruments

            Alloys

            Compared to steel, Monel is very difficult to machine as it work-hardens instantly with heat and does not harden into a constant matrix. It needs to be turned and worked at slow speeds and low feed rates. It is resistant to corrosion and acids, and some alloys can withstand a fire in pure oxygen. It is commonly used in applications with highly corrosive conditions. Small additions of aluminum and titanium form an alloy (K-500) with the same corrosion resistance but with much greater strength due to gamma prime formation on aging. Monel is typically much more expensive than stainless steel.

            Monel has a specific gravity of 8.82. 

            The most common place used in marine uses is propeller shafts which is where I ran into it many years ago. I think it would make a fantastic set of ferrules for saltwater if I can find some K-500.  (Don Schneider)

              I believe that all the ferrules on the Grangers, Phillipsons, and Wright and McGill rods were drawn from Monel. But I could be mistaken, wouldn't be the first time.  (Joe Arguello)

                Joe, you are remembering correctly.

                One of the Granger rods indeed had Monel ferrules. It was the 'Water Seal', also their only impregnated rod. It came in two models, FA and FB. The FA model had the Monel ferrules. The FB ferrules were the standard Granger nickel silver.

                I can't speak for the Phillipson rods.  But Bill Phillipson came up with the 'Water Seal', so it would make sense that he would build some rods with Monel ferrules.  (Reed Guice)

                Very interesting history about 'Monel' metal in these exchanges. A rather mundane application was the wire baskets used for dipping parts (airplane magneto components), in acid and plating solutions in a 'Defense Plant' where I was employed in the early 1940s ~ when affordable (cheap?) fly rod hardware was usually nickel-plated brass.  (Vince Brannick)

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Any thoughts on the different mfr's of ferrules these days?  Have used both Golden Witch and Rush River.  How about Bellinger and CSE? Who else is out there? Any issues/problems?  I seem to remember a thread a few years back where there might have been a few questions.  (Keith Temple)

    I'm very happy with Rush River.  Service is outstanding!  (Neil Savage)

    I just received an order from Bellinger & I think these may be the best ferrules I have gotten yet.  Rush River Rods are also very good & I do not think you can wrong buying from any of the manufacturers. (Bret Reiter)

      I've used both REC and CSE (Bailey Woods) and am happy with both. I also used Rodon ferrules before Cortland acquired them, and while they were fine ferrules, I think they were about 3 TIMES as oversize as are the current crop. Gawd, it took forEVER to dress those males! So, when I get a ferrule that's oversized a thou or two, I just recall where we've come and sigh happily!  (Art Port)

      I have been using Rush River ferrules and like them.  Also, Tony seems to be very good about donating to the auctions at Gatherings.  (Jim Sobota)

    There are only 4 or 5 commercial manufacturers of nickel silver ferules these days that I know of. REC makes Uniferrules, Rush River, Golden Witch's Field Grade and Titanium ferrules and CSE makes both theirs and Bellingers, Bellinger just knurls the welt and for all I know CSE may do that for them, too. A.J. Thramer offered ferrules for a while, too, I haven't used his or checked with his web site about them in a while, so if you're inclined you might check his out.  (John Channer)

      Whoops! Forgot Rush River and Golden Witch. Found no problems with theirs either - maybe I'm too soft a grader???  (Art Port)

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I am going to have to purchase a set of ferrules for my initial build, and was wondering about the various offerings.

It seems that Rush River Rods is the cheapest then the field grade from Golden Witch, and CSE manufactured sold by Bellinger.  Any suggestions? (Ron Delesky)

    I haven't needed to order ferrules for a while, but I was MOST pleased with the service from Rush River.  (Neil Savage)

    IMHO you can't got wrong with the Rush River ferrules. However, you will probably find people on the list who like the others as well.  (Bill Bixler)

    Rush River and Golden Witch ferrules work, but they are more like .002-.003" oversize. The Classic Sporting Enterprise ferrules are, IMHO, the best of the 3 mentioned. (Don Peet)

      That is intertional, so you can fit them.  (Dave Burley)

        CSE will fit a set for an additional 15.00. I have taken them up on that at times on the size 9 ferrules. I still prefer Rush River. I like the shorter ferrules they make. That is personal preference, they both do the same job well.  (Tony Spezio)

        I'll have to agree with Don.  The ferrules made by CSE for themselves and for Bellinger are the easiest to fit.  There's enough extra material to allow for pinning the ferrules, but not so much that it takes an hour or more to make the male fit perfectly.

        Also, the CSE ferrules are made from drawn tubing rather than machined from solid bar stock.  Tubing work-hardens as it is drawn, thus making for better ferrules, IMHO.  I have used Tony's (Rush River) ferrules and the Golden Witch field grade as well.  They're great.  But ferrules made from tubing are a little better, in my opinion.

        Best of all are self-made ferrules from tubing, but that's another discussion altogether.  (Harry Boyd)

          Interesting comment, re:  "self-made  ferrules  from tubing." I find tubing to be quite a bit more difficult to machine than bar-stock, but admittedly more economical (if successful). Is the suggestion to further draw the tubing to desired dimensions? Then there's the matter of soldering in/on moisture dams. There are probably some tutorials describing methods and procedures, but any video tapes I've seen, seem to leave out the 'small' details that might be helpful. Ferrules bought from some of the recommended sources, also appear to have drill points and (sometimes) solder deposits where flat bottoms would seem to be more desirable. What are your thoughts?  (Vince Brannick)

            I haven't made ferrules from tubings but think it's up to individual rod makers to decide what types of ferrules to use.

            I have been, however, machining titanium ferrules on CNC machines, which is a luxury not many have. The question of having a flat bottom on the inside did came up in my prototyping process and discussion with other rod makers. I truly don't see functional benefits one over the other.

            Consider  this,  the  solid  carbide  drills  I used  have 135-degree points,  meaning the water seal will have a 45-degree cone-shaped point on both sides of the seal. It might seem to be  a huge difference, but on slightly larger ferrules, such as #13 and smaller, that slope seems to be less critical as the taper seem so close to being flat on that wall thickness of .035"  that it wouldn't make sense to ream it flat. One might even argue that it's a good place to have some glue to stay......

            But, honestly, I am looking for special spot end mills in solid carbide to take out the drill spots. Not that I think it makes a better ferrule, but I just want to have a flat water seal.........

            It's incredibly rare to see a ready-made spot end mills in the smaller standard sizes - But I did find one company making them in .2031" - #13 -

            Expensive? you'd bet on it - and even more expensive if I blow out some of these end mills. One of the most expensive part in machining titanium is a klutzy operator who will blow out tools on occasions.

            by the way, my #13 step-downs are coming out nicely - should have a picture to share in a week or two.  (Jimmy Chang)

            Drill points in the bottom are bar stock ferrules that are well made.  I wrote an article for Power Fibers a few years back about how to make your own "finishing" drill bit for ferrules.  It basically takes away the center cutting design of the drill bit, flattens the cutters to straight across, and basically  makes the drill bit a noncenter cutting end mill.  One pass to clean up the bottom of the drilled hole and no center "points" left.  And a lot cheaper than buying non-center cutting end mills in every size needed.  (Mark Wendt)

              The comment about  "drill points,  solder residue, etc." was an 'aside'. The main question to Harry related to his assertion regarding "self-made ferrules from tubing". Haven't accessed the 'Power Fibers' article yet, but hope to find it informative. Am experienced with grinding flat bottom drills, and have needed to do so on  occasion with purchased ferrules. Like to think of close proximity of section ends, and may it even find it necessary to clear out solder residue with water-seals in tubing. (Vince Brannick)

                Yup, once you take away the ability for the bit/end mill to center cut, it can't go any deeper than the "point" left by the center cutting drill bit.  (Mark Wendt)

                  I am just a bit confused about all if this, but I have an open mind. Why is so important to have a flat surface. To me, anything that had a 90* edge will have a stress point. Maybe I had been in aviation too long. I would think a "cupped" surface would relieve the stress point. I bevel the edges on the blank to conform with the cup in the ferrule. Enlighten me on this, I might learn something.. I agree when it comes to cleaning out solder, I find a normal drill bit will do the same thing but it leaves a "cup."  (Tony Spezio)

                    The "edges" will still be slightly radiused inside the ferrule at the bottom of the milled/drilled hole.  If you don't take the depth of the hole down to the bottom of the point, the male ferrule will not seat all the way in the female.  The ferrule dimensions - ie, the length of the male slide, and the depth of the female side - are based on "flat" water seals.  If you don't take the female side that's reamed out down to the flat "water seal" depth, the male ferrule will not be completely seated. (Mark Wendt)

                      I agree about the the bamboo not being seated but I am thinking when I bevel the end of the stick, it will seat in the cup, that leaves no space between the bamboo and the water seal. Am I off base on this.  (Tony Spezio)

                        That's how I've always tried to seat them... with a slight bevel to "center" the section and seat up firmly against the water seal.  (Mike St. Clair)

                          It's not the cane side of the ferrule I'm talking about - it's the male slide to female ferrule fit I'm talking about.  The end of the male ferrule is flat, and the bottom of the female ferrule needs to be flat as well.  (Mark Wendt)

                        I thought  the same thing, but then realized if you are machining a ferrule, you are machining both side of the ferrule.  It needs to allow for complete insertion of the male ferrule.  Correct?  Sounds like we may be only thinking of the bamboo side of the ferrule. (Pete Emmel)

                        I'm not talking about the bamboo seating, I'm talking about the male ferrule not seating completely in the female ferrule.  The depth of the female ferrule's slide opening corresponds to the length of the male slide.  If the female ferrule's bottom isn't "flattened" out by either an end mill or the modified drill bit, the male ferrule will not seat completely in the female by the amount from the point to the corner of the cutting edge on the drill bit.  (Mark Wendt)

                      I am re reading this message and I think I am talking about one thing and you are talking about another. I was talking about fitting the ferrule in the stick. I think here you are talking about the male to female. In this case, I have to agree, but I never gave it a thought.

                      Now that you have me thinking about it, I will have to look into it.

                      See, I am learning something.  (Tony Spezio)

                        Yes!  That's what I'm talking about.  ;-)  (Mark Wendt)

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