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I've been doing some research on the Payne 97 and Payne 98. I've looked through the archives, looked at the stress curves and such. It looks as if the 98 (Ted Knott version from the list) is a 5 wt, yet everyone call's it a fast 4 wt. If you compare the stress curves and dimensions, the rods are very similar, especially the change of stations from about station 35 to the butt. Also, if you look at the Line Weight Value of the 98, it's a 72 or 73, hence, 5 wt; but, everyone says 4 wt. So, my question is, what did Mr. Payne intend the 98 rod to be? How is it listed in the old Payne catalogs?  (Jim Lowe)

    97 - 7' DF - 2-5/8 - 2-3/4 oz.

    98 - 7' Fast DF - 2-7/8 - 3 oz.  (Larry Blan)

    I build the Jim Payne 98 as one of the standards.   I sell  it as a 4-weight.

    With one exception, every person who has bought one has finished up using it with a weight forward #5, or a couple who fish it with double taper silk lines, (and who the hell can equate silk lines to modern plastic ones) so what does that make it.  (Peter McKean)

    Here's my two cents;  The 97, this is a four weight, I think, It looks like someone stuck a four weight tip on to a three weight butt, Don't know how that works I never tried one but that's what it is anyway.  The 98 is fast four weight DT or a 5 WF with a butt swell starting at 60 in. the tip is almost a straight taper and will flex uniformly up the butt swell,  then stiffen up very fast. Looks like a very nice rod.  (Bob Norwood)

      Thanks Bob, all part of the learning process I guess. Part of that for me has been trying to learn the makers original intent (the silk line Vs. plastic line problem  aside).

      So we're all on the same page, these are the tapers in question. When I graph them, they look pretty much the same after about station 35.

                   97                 98  

        0      0.064           0.075  
        5      0.076           0.085  
        10    0.098           0.101  
        15    0.112           0.119  
        20    0.126           0.135  
        25    0.138           0.15  
        30    0.15             0.161  
        35    0.162           0.171  
        40    0.174           0.183  
        45    0.186           0.195  
        50    0.19             0.2  
        55    0.206           0.213  
        60    0.22             0.23  
        65    0.232           0.243  
        70    0.244           0.255  
        75    0.252           0.264  
        80    0.28             0.285  
        85    0.3               0.285     (Jim Lowe)

        To my knowledge, there are AT LEAST 2 Payne 98 tapers around.  Ron Barch's has a considerably  lighter tip than the one in this post, the tip is kind of between the 97 & 98 shown here, and the butt is a bit heavier.  (Neil Savage)

          I read there are 4 but the only ones I know are the one below and the one you speak of. The latter is significantly different  and a bit faster with a very powerful butt. I have cast only one 98 and I didn't like it. I'm guessing it was the latter rod as the former looks more pleasurable to cast. When graphed the latter rod looks very much in-between a 4 and 5, but that's another can of worms.    (Jim Lowe)

            The tapers you gave, seem to me to be about the same except I think the 97 is a 4 wt and the 98 maybe a 5 wt. The 97 looks like a 4+ tip and a 4- butt will have to look for one at SRG5 and see how it casts.

            The 98 I have is quite different than the one you give, think I would like my version better.

            1    66
            5    82
            10    92
            15    110
            20    122
            25    137
            30    147
            35    159
            40    171
            45    194
            50    205
            55    220
            60    242
            65    261
            70    281
            75    312
            80    312
            85    312

            This is the one that has a mostly straight taper to 55" then a fast swell into the handle. I think it would be a nice medium fast 4 wt.  (Bob Norwood)

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