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I have some left over 43" strips with identical node spacing. I'd like to use them to make the butt section of a 7" 2 piece. What's wrong with reversing every other strip butt for tip? This will give me a perfect 3 x 3 node pattern. Comments please. (Dennis Bertram) I have done it twice before on hex rods (once for a quad), and it worked fine. I checked for a spine just in case, and could not find a real jump. The three-three should balance it out well. I would worry more if it was a 9'. Go for it. (Bob Maulucci) I've done it. It works. It was one of the few virtually spineless rods I ever built. (Timothy Troester)
Use 6 strips from the butt. More power fibers and you will have more of these strips to pick from. (Marty DeSapio) For most three-piece rods of 8' or so, the midsection doesn't need special consideration as to strip-selection from the culm. Larger rods, yes. The half-dimension for the largest part of a midsection is usually no greater than the depth of the power fibers at the half-way-point of a good culm, so you're safe enough. On the other hand, you should have plenty of cane available in the butt area of the culm to take all six strips for both your butt and your mid sections. Having said that, there is also no good reason why you couldn't do as you suggest -- use three strips from the butt and three from the tip. The only consideration here would be that node-spacing would be quite different in strips taken from the two areas of a culm. You would need to do some "jockeying" to achieve a good staggering pattern, but I imagine you could work that out. In all, I wouldn't worry much about the issue unless you are building a large rod. (Bill Harms) Or you could either order your culms for 3 piece rods cut to 4' lengths instead of 6' or cut your 12' culms to 4' yourself. just a thought. (John Channer)
I choose the clearest culms in my collection, then split judiciously. I often split the tips to more than 24 strips per culm. Butts are usually split to 18 - 24 strips. Then I choose the 12 best tip strips, and the 6 best butt strips. Butt strips are the biggest worry. In butt strips there's much more cane to show the watermarks, and on those butts the marks stick out like a sore thumb. Tips are small enough that a small cosmetic blemish isn't so obvious. (Harry Boyd) I dunno, jeez! I always regarded bamboo as a natural material whose surface would would not be perfect. I don't mind little "blemishes" in coloration at all -- any more than I do in natural woods. These little "blems" add character and personality, in my view. Of course, it's true that some markings can be downright horrible in a blond rod, but otherwise I have always thought the little watermarks and so forth are rather attractive. I never look for perfectly clear cane. It's a matter of taste, to be sure, but just don't assume that in order for a blond rod to be "good," it must also be perfectly clear. (Bill Harms) The only 2 Leonard rods I have seen were both blond and both had more than one water mark. FWIW (John Channer) I like making blond rods, although, as you found out, the selection criteria tends to lower the number of acceptable culms quite a bit, I make noded rods only so far. I have noticed that some of the surface stains, etc. are only skin deep, so to speak, and that removal of the enamel does 'clear' things up in some cases. Blond rods can be a cosmetic challenge to say the least. Some times when I have a culm which is a likely candidate but has some 'water' marks, I will lightly sand the offending areas with fine grit paper to see if the areas will clear up -- some do, some don't- it's all in the cards. (Mike Shaffer) "Clear" is the cane we all want to see. Arguments exist with concerns as to exactly what is clear but I think that the cleanest cane we could imagine is cane that would make a blond rod with zero visible watermarks/blemishes. Go to the "organic" section in a produce section to find the apples and try to find one with ZERO visible marks on it. Bamboo is organic and its marks are inherent. I think the job of any importer of Tonkin is to find and sell the best bamboo available. That is all any of us can do. Virtually blemish free bamboo does exist. I've seen approximately 50 pieces of it while sorting through over 30,000 poles. Seriously. Less than two pieces per thousand. I hear as many stories of "the perfect cane of yesteryear" as anyone and note a few things. First, that history is pliable. You should hear about how good looking some of my ex girlfriends get as the years go by. Second, companies in the business of producing cane rods may use more than one culm per finished rod; even if they only get two strips per culm they could make a rod void of blems. Also, there is more Tonkin being farmed in southern China now than ever before. In the 1920's, when F.A. McClure first saw and named Tonkin, there were approximately 15,000 acres on Tonkin growing in that region. When L. Marden went to that same area in 1972, there were over 40,000 acres of Tonkin being farmed and there are now over 70,000 of this crop grown in the same region. When traveling through the Tonkin growing areas, I have seen a lot of Tonkin groves that look ill. Entire hillsides of sickly looking Tonkin. This is a commodity farm crop in a very poor region of the planet. Many farmers will grow the bamboo without working to grow very good bamboo. Remember that for 90% of the Tonkin market, the appearance of the pole is not important, a cheap price is what is of paramount importance to the buyers. Thereby focusing some farmers on quantity, not quality. More bamboo grown by eager hands equals, in my opinion, more bamboo of poor quality. On my fist visit to China in '97, many of the poles I inspected still had "farmer's" marks on them. Over and over again, I found poles of very high quality and upon closer inspection, saw the same farm's mark on it (this mark is a brand, noting the farm or land from where the bamboo hails). This farm (actually a collective of farmers from a family or village) seemed to be getting something right and was growing very nice bamboo. Again and again, I saw the same mark on the best bamboo. When I returned to the states, I visited a production rod company who had a large collection of bamboo from the 1930's. Upon inspecting some of their poles, I saw one in a pile that seemed of above average quality. I pulled it out of its pile and saw, on the lower third of the pole, that very same farm's mark! I do not know what causes the marks in discussion here. I do believe that water is not the most common villain. My theory is that most marks are scratches and bruises which occur in the first year of the bamboo's life. In this first season, the bamboo is growing very rapidly and has a very high percentage of water content, making it very pliable and prone to marking. Tonkin grows on steep, crowded and often windy hillsides, the poles get knocked around an awful lot. When I told the Chinese that people wanted cane without marks on them they laughed and told me that perhaps they should ask their wives to knit sweaters for the bamboo growing on the hillsides to protect it (yes I considered it but we couldn't agree on a thread colour). Once harvested, the cane is not babied; it is manhandled and striped of its branches, it is thrown down hillsides, dragged up and down rocky trails, splashed down rivers, banged around on tractors and generally treated as a commodity piece of lumber would be here in the states. And then there are the shipping companies here on this side of the equation... Again, it is the job of the Tonkin importers to sell the best cane available. "Perfect" cane is just too incredibly rare to focus our businesses on. For me, constant input from my customers is necessary to continuously take into account what is needed from the cane I sell. "Clearness" is slightly ambiguous since so little cane is perfectly clear. Keep in close touch with your seller and let them know what you need. (Andy Royer) I would add one thing to what Andy has said. The big production companies of days gone by bought this stuff by the railroad car load, with that kind of quantity you can afford to cull like crazy and pick your best bamboo for your top models. (John Channer) I guess with all this feedback I'll have to reassess a few of my culms, might be able to make a blond rod after all. Thanks for all the comments. (Bill Walters)
Has anyone ever encountered this? Did you reserve that culm for a heavy taper, or did you adjust the taper a bit to offset the apparent exceptional strength of the culm? (Jeff Schaeffer) I've had a culm or two like that over the last several years. In fact, I'm using one right now for a couple of 8' 7 weights. I never really thought about adjusting the taper for the size of the culm, though it might be worth considering. And I guess I'm too stuck in my ways to use the culm "upside-down". (Harry Boyd)
While I haven't tried green Tonkin, I have tried fooling with local stuff that's green. It doesn't split well. A few days or weeks in the sun will dry that cane right out, and make it both better looking and easier to work with. (Harry Boyd) I was also thinking about exercising it for a while before I cut it. By that I mean flexing it extremely in a few directions and giving it a week to heal , and repeating that process a few times. I know it's not Tonkin, but it' looks pretty choice to me. This grove has a few pieces that are large diameter, very thick walls and about 40' tall, also it feels much harder than some of the other local cane I've found. (Shane Pinkston) Your green cane is probably 2 years old. It will work just fine and don't need to be seasoned before you can use it. It just don't have that bleached look which comes from the sun and aging. I've used new cane like you have and although it splits just slightly different from the old cane, the end result is still the same. After it's taken out of the oven the moisture content should be basically the same with either, unless you're splitting hairs. (Jim Bureau) I was thinking of whacking some out of the forest and torturing it that day. (Shane Pinkston) I have heard Mr. Demarest say on several occasions that the color of the cane has nothing to do with how dry it is. When the cane is stacked in China it is stacked like a teepee the cane on the outside gets more sun and it turns brown those on the inside do not get the sun so they stay green. To get the cane brown just put it in the sun for a few days it will turn brown. It won't necessarily be any dryer but it will be a different color. (David Ray)
The very best bamboo will have the least cosmetic blemishes, with no farmer marks. This is the first thing I'd be looking for if I was sorting through a pile of bamboo. Obviously, I wouldn't want any mold or rot in the culm, nor would I want any bamboo culms that had been straightened with heat. Most bamboo simply isn't perfect in every way, and needs to be worked with in some fashion. Another check I'd make is to heft the culm. If I had a choice between two culms that are cosmetically the same and one of the culms seemed heavier then the other, I'd take the heavy one. Heavy culms are considered to have denser power fibers. You can't prove this theory me and I use every culm I buy, but many of the old masters felt this way. (Jim Bureau)
2, 3, 4 will all be single tip rods. I have roughed out 10 of my tip strips and on three of the strips I'm getting chips and tear outs through out the strips. They all came from the same area in the culm, so I'm thinking that this area was bad for some reason. The culm looked great, and the nodes didn't need to be pressed very much. Other than the above problems the culm looked like it was very good. It was one of Golden Witch's A grade culms. The questions, should I just ditch the strips and use the extras that I have or try working with them? Also, how does one go about picking up on what may be causing this to happen (before I split and get to the roughing stage) in a culm that looks almost perfect, (remember I'm still new to this) or at least better than the one that I made Rod #1 out of. Third, if I use the strips, will it haunt me later? On to a different topic. I have a cheap boo that I picked up on eBay. A fishing buddy "broke" it this past Friday after our trip. The ferrule on the tip came off in the female when he tried to take it apart. It looks to me like the maker took too much cane off when he/she put the ferrule on in the making process. I'm thinking there is no way to fix this, am I right? The cane is very dark under the ferrule, looks like it was burnt almost. Could this be from the glue used, or was this section cooked more for some reason? (Robert Hicks) P.S. I'm going to strip the parts off the "broken" rod and use them later. Nice components, cheap rod, it's signed and the tube was nice, but I'll not call any names. I haven't seen the name on this list, but who knows. I wouldn't want to insult anyone. Don't throw away those strips quite yet. Chances are very good that your problems lie in one of three areas. Make it four. First, it's possible that you did not get the node pressed quite flat. The solution? Press it again. Second, the node may have a serious crook to the side where things are tearing out. Solution -- straighten. Third, your plane blade may be dull. Solution -- sharpen. Fourth, your blade MAY BE DULL -- sharpen <g>. One more thing. Rather than rebuild that cheapie rod, why not repair it? You'll learn some things worth knowing and wind up with your rod fishable again. Use some hotmelt glue to reinstall the ferrule, and use a ferrule puller to disassemble the rod. Then remove the ferrules and mount them correctly, etc. (Harry Boyd) No need to chuck those strips, I have found this problem when I was rough planing dry strips . As Harry said, your blade may not be sharp but if it is, here are a few things you can do. Check the throat opening on your plane. If it is too wide, it will lift the bamboo. Soak the strips for several days and try planing again. There will be a big difference. If you prefer not to soak don't. You can also try planing from tip to butt till it cleans up. If the lifting is only on one side, plane the good side till you get it smooth, flip the bad side up, move up the form and plane as above. I assume you are planing the final taper. Move the strip down to form to a wider area than the finish size, finish the good side as you would the final taper. Move the strip up the form, still larger than finish size. Scrape the bad areas with a single edge razor blade till the area is lower than the rest of the surface. Hold the blade between your thumb and first finger. As you scrape let the blade flip back and forth in a scraping motion. When you plane that surface the plane blade will pass over the dip in the surface and not lift any bamboo. Keep working up the form till finish taper. The strip can then be finished with a scraper or single edge razor blades. I prefer the razor blade. Scrape till you are scraping the metal form. Flip the strip and scrape the other side If you have already scraped the enamel side, the strip will be ready to glue. If you have chipped the strips too deep that they will have dips in the finished strip I would not chuck them, there will be smaller rods you might be making later on. I am not cheap, just frugal. LOL (Tony Spezio)
Remember - The Following is Opinion and Only That - I have had access to a pile of pre embargo cane - and the observations are this - the longest lengths I have seen are - about 8' - which would add some challenge to completing one rod per culm - the pile I saw was from just after WW II - and there were some qualities that you won't see today - in those days Tonkin for rodmaking in china was a much larger market - and the Importer (the Demarests) had more leverage than what they have today with the reduced quantities that they import - the pre embargo cane was allowed to grow for a couple more years - which allowed it to produce a bit deeper power fibers - which may be a moot point considering the usage - remember that ALL rods were made of bamboo in those days - and it took a piece of cane with deeper power fibers to make a tuna rod then than it does today to make a trout tod - the aging I feel is not an issue - proper storage in more of a factor than the longevity of storage - remember that at a certain point the moisture level stabilizes - that varies from locale to locale - I suspect that no matter how much is written - that the Myst will continue - but finding the pre embargo would be almost impossible for most - with the only remaining holdings kept very secure - Gee - how many have seen a piece of Tonkin that is 3 1/2 " at the butt???? They do exist - but . . . rare. (Wayne Cattanach) I would agree with Wayne on this one, but take it a step further. I think the quality of pre-embargo cane took on mythic proportions only because of the difference between it and what we got right after the embargo was lifted. Basically, though, while pre-embargo cane is wonderful stuff, I really doubt that it's any better than what we are getting now (except for building Wayne's tuna rods). I still have a dozen or so half-culms of pre-embargo cane that came from the old Sewell Dunton operation. Originally, I had a pickup truck full of the stuff, but much had to be discarded because of worm holes, scrapings, mold, grotesque twists, forced-bending injuries and other problems. I don't have any way of knowing whether my supply was typical or not, but if it was, the quality control of today's cane is far, far superior. Among the culms that are good, they are very, very good. But they are not better than the best coming from our present supplies. As to the "curing" process, I doubt that pre-embargo cane has any significant advantage over one's contemporary "stash," since it's doubtful that there would be any measurable changes in the internal structure after the first couple years or so of air-drying (perhaps even less time). And subsequent flaming and/or heat treatment would surely be a great "leveler" in the comparisons of old-to-new cane anyhow. So, don't go all orgasmic over pre-embargo cane; it wasn't THAT wonderful. (Bill Harms) Even with what you and Wayne have said, there is enough allure to the stuff that I think all of us would like to make one rod from pre-embargo cane. If it is for no other reason then to say we did. (Tim Wilhelm) Well, sure! Why not? Nostalgia is a powerful nostrum in our hobby, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that! (Bill Harms) I have a small stash (nine culms) of pre embargo bamboo. There are two things that strike you when you look at it. First, all the culms are at least 2" diameter, with one about 3". Second, the culms have darkened slightly to a honey color from aging, and not unlike heat treating would produce. I've only made one rod from it for a customer and at the time I didn't think it's action was much different from another with the same taper. I'm saving the culms for the next big rod I make, say a #8, or #9, mainly because of their size. (Ted Knott) I have five culms of pre-embargo cane remaining from a bundle I got from Dunston in the early 60's. It's been in dry attic storage and looks OK. This is not the 3 inch diameter stuff described on the list. By the 60's Sewell was saving that class of cane. Mine are 1 1/2 inch diameter, and 6 feet in length. The rods I made from this lot are still performing well. (Bill Fink)
I think everyone who's careful about checking their strips before planing has had this experience at one time or another. It is something of a mystery why this occurs in an otherwise healthy looking culm, but happen it does. To the best of my knowledge, there's nothing that can be done with such a culm. I've tried different heat-treating regimens, but have had no success in "resurrecting" the affected area. (Typically, it's an entire internodal area, and also, typically, only one.) Unfortunately, if you go ahead and build with this cane, you will almost certainly have a ruined rod. But, as you say, "in the interests of discovery," you might go ahead and see what happens. There's nothing like one's own experience. (Bill Harms) Just last month I made a Dickerson taper 7613 for a fellow. I test cast it and it was a just a piece of junk. Mic'ed the blank and no problems. Cast it again and it was worse than I remembered. Behaved a bit like a para which it really aughtn't have but not para enough to be useful. Basically junk. When I took the butt from the string I noticed the butt was a bit wimpish but made the mistake of finishing it. When the results were so poor initially I thought it may have been old UF that had failed so I performed an autopsy but the glue held so well all I did was break the rod up trying to get to the bottom of the problem. The tips are fine but the butt has no guts to it. The problem appears to have been weak bamboo just beneath one of the nodes and as the strips are matched this weakness is all round the rod in two places along the length where the nodes match up on the bank following the pattern. Makes me think the old guys who randomly placed nodes weren't just being slack, they thought it didn't matter and avoided the chance of matching weak spots like this. (Tony Young) I check each strip as use it. Each strip gets the bend test several times as the work on each strip progresses. I have found that when a weak spot shows up, strips from the same culm show the same weak spot. So far I have been able to trim out the weak spots and use most of the culm, usually for the shorter sections on multi piece rods, or just sliding up or down on the culm and trim out the weak spot completely. You do have to be willing to toss out strips or even culms. It's not worth completing a rod with bad strips. (Darryl Hayashida)
The second indication developed as I continued with the six strip nodeless trirod, written up in the last Planing Form. After the forms were made, theory still prevailed, especially concerning whether or not it would be possible to glue up the strip section of the rod. A tip was constructed and the results surpassed my expectations and those of several others who visit the shop frequently. Since that top was made with random pieces of bamboo left over from other rods, it seemed advisable to have two tips for that first six strip trirod. A culm of bamboo, purchased four or five years ago and stored in our attic was visually selected. It was heavy, appeared to have a good supply of outside fibers and proved to be straight grained. The only thing that might have provided a clue to its true quality came when straightening individual nodeless strips before gluing them back together. At times it seemed less heat was required to straighten the strips than usual. At others it seemed only imagination. One other possible clue was missed during selection. A substantial "dent" was evident near the butt end of the culm but at that point was viewed simply as the result of straightening the entire culm when first cut. After all the strips for both the butt and tip of the rod were reassembled, ready for finish planing, one had a decided bow. For some unknown reason, I picked that one up, applied a bit of pressure, without heating and the strip easily straightened. There was no spring back as would ordinarily occur under those conditions. The strip remained as straight as when I applied the pressure. Checking the other strips revealed the same condition although to a somewhat lesser degree, so it was back to square one. Luckily the discovery was made early in making the new rod. As an experiment, one of the reassembled strips was tempered again. It may have slightly increased the stiffness of the bamboo but did little to improve the Tight Bond II joints. (George Barnes)
Might humidity be the cause of the problem with the cane? I'll try bringing the strips inside to see what happens, but I would be interested in other options, too. I thought about leaving in the oven at very low 110 degree heat, but I lack confidence in leaving a homemade oven unattended. (Paul Franklyn) Humidity is a part of the problem, but not all of it. You must keep the humidity out of your unfinished wood -- which means strips, planed strips, glued sections, and treated culms. I built an 8-foot plus tall cabinet. You'll need 6 feet at least, even for 2-piece rods, because you'll need space to hang things, etc. I hung my glued sections, as well as finished strips, from close pins (and you'll find, that merely under their weight, in the cabinet, some straightening will transpire). I insulated the cabinet, and its doors were relatively tight. The heat of a light bulb in the bottom of the cabinet should keep everything inside warm enough to drive off humidity. But that won't solve your problems. None of those strips in my cabinet were straightened. I final straightened glued-up sections with a special apparatus. Typical methods of straightening nodes substantially damages the strength of the nodes. But proper technique does not require straightened nodes, and since, in the natural cane, the node is actually the strongest part, why take any risks with it, when in fact the contiguous fibers between the nodes terminate there, and are only attached to the section above or below by their enlarged ends? Does it not stand to reason, if not experience, that rearranging the structure of that node then will damage it? It is not plastic. Its geometry can only be rearranged by damaging it -- you break down the structure between the bulbous, attaching, overlapping terminal ends of the fibers. So how you build a straight rod comes down to your gluing technique. What happens when you glue that section up is, side R (right) is longer than side L (left), comprising a curve from left to right in that strip of a given subsection of the assembly. When you took that strip from the culm, the one opposed to it should be taken from the adjacent position in the culm (next to it). Thus its set is virtually exactly opposite, on the opposite side of the rod. When you glue the rod together then, twists or bending of those strips is taken out of the glued section by twisting, and your binding method therefore must both apply enough pressure to hold those strips however you have to bend them, and give you adequate indications (light-reflection-wise) to do this right. You must glue up the sections as close as you can to straight. The flats will be straight, because the twisting you do to take out the curvature of the opposing strips will straighten them! Anyway, that's how an old rectangular builder I know straightened some of the toughest strips (widest flats) you could ever come up against. I might add, that particularly to straighten such a wide strip, would have been particularly damaging to it. (Mike Montagne) I'm somewhat less than convinced about the need to keep cane free from humidity throughout the building process. If the cane is truly good at the start, it will remain so at the end, and whatever "limpness" may develop in the meantime can be reversed prior to binding. In addition to one's heat treating regimen (which dries the strips to a rather extreme degree), it's certainly an easy matter to pop the cane in an oven shortly before gluing. But apart from that, I don't know that there's much to worry about. Once our heat-treating process has driven off the so-called "bound water" within cellular structures, those cells become sealed and that form of moisture will not return. On the other hand, the "free water" (moisture located between and amongst the cells) will always come and go as the ambient humidity changes, and there's not much we can do about that, either during or after construction. We can keep our cane super-dry, but to what end? As soon as the cane is returned to a natural environment it will adjust to ambient humidity regardless of our efforts to prevent the process, and this remains the case even after a rod has received its final finish. Impregnation changes that picture, of course, but otherwise, none of our finishes can do more than retard that inevitable "breathing" process. So, all our fastidious efforts to keep strips super dry during the construction process are really for naught. Certainly, selecting strips from opposite sides of the natural culm does no harm, if one feels like mucking about with that, but I doubt that this really addresses the cause of a crooked rod section. I believe more problems result from our binders and the string itself than from any other single cause. Despite our best efforts, the wrapping process itself often induces twists and bends, and even the best wrapping machine is not perfect. In addition to inadvertent problems of uneven tension, string itself is not an absolutely uniform material and it will dry and shrink at unpredictable rates. As we've all seen, a perfectly straight section will often show bends and twists upon curing that were not there before. Probably, we'll never know for certain, but I do not believe this is caused by individual strips wanting to resume their natural shapes, but rather by the many vagaries of the binding process itself. After a section has cured, minor bends can be removed, but sometimes the more serious ones are likely to return. One preventive measure is to "slap" freshly bound sections repeatedly on the bench, though this takes some practice. Another method is to roll out each of the flats with firm pressure, using one of those little wallpaper seam rollers. Still another technique is to remove the string carefully from each section as soon as the glue is set, but well before it cures. I do all three, and while I'll often have a minor bend to remove later, I've never had a rod stubbornly resume that shape. Different strokes for different folks. (Bill Harms) As an amateur rodmaker, I am mentally challenged as to the effect of humidity on the strips. But some of us who use the MHM soak the strips for days before planning with no adverse affect on the rod. I soak and rough plane, then heat treat and soak again before planning to final dimensions. Also, depending on the adhesive I use, sometimes I will spray the strips with water before gluing. Works for me. (Larry Fraysier) I think that this problem is a real one that supports the need of the drying cabinet. I always maintain my rods in process in any stage into my DC. (Marcelo Calviello) If you measure the damp strips immediately after final planing, then again after a week or two, you'll find that they will be slightly smaller when dry. If you are copying the taper for another rod, you may find that yours will use a line size smaller. Shrinkage of .002" - .003" on a strip will definitely affect the line size. (Ron Grantham) Yes, that's true. I didn't mention that I do allow for the shrinkage in the final planing. Just wanted to indicate how much humidity that the strips were subjected to in the process of making the rod. (Larry Fraysier) I wonder if even impregnating keeps free moisture out of the cane. I'm sure it would slow the process, but I know fiberglass boats absorb moisture (my canoe must weigh 50 pounds more in the Fall than it does in the Spring.) If the impregnating went all the way through, maybe, but maybe not even then. Has anyone ever done a study on this? (Neil Savage) I don't have time to argue with you, and neither am I convinced that any part of the cane is somehow rendered absolutely impervious to water absorption. But I'll say this. I've never had a rod take a set; and I'll stand by the principles, not as you stated them, but as I did, of placing adjacent strips on opposite sides of the section. Again, twisting at glue-up will make that section straight; and you don't have to worry about all this other stuff. Moreover, consistent humidity (when working with wood), as is consistent temperature (when working with any material), is merely conducive to good practice -- even just measuring your work. I hold it dear to adopt good practice. So it is no matter of different strokes for different folks for me. When I see the better practice, I don't resist it. (Mike Montagne) Yes, of course consistent heat and humidity are best. But I thought we were discussing the need to keep one's cane particularly dry. And if you obtain good results from taking strips from alternating sides of a culm, or to twist your glued sections, there's certainly no reason not to continue doing so. These practices do not, however, necessarily constitute "good practice" to the exclusion of others (nor become particularly compelling) just because you prefer them. Sorry to have offended you, but there are a great number of superb builders out here with other practices. (Bill Harms) I've been making rods for less then 10 years and haven't built several hundred like the two of you have, but I've been able to figure out that any of the accepted node patterns will give excellent results. If there was any node pattern that would have kept sets from happening I'm sure that the major manufactures of the past would have quickly adapted to the superior pattern, and we'd have all have jumped in line with them. We know that this isn't the case and those companies made hundreds of thousands of rods with many different node patterns. As for the sets in rods, I'm convinced the problems happen from bamboo that's not heat treated properly, poor gluing job with to many stresses to be straightened, or on a rare occasion the bamboo is of poor quality. With today’s rodmakers, and the somewhat simple heat treating procedure's that are being used, I hear of very few makers who are experiencing sets in their rods, no matter what node pattern they choose to use. (Jim Bureau) Regarding the selection and placement of strips, I'm not sure, but I think you misunderstood Mike. Mike advocates taking strips that were adjacent to each other in the culm and placing them opposite each other in a rod section. I agree completely with this, and have always done the same for the reasons that Mike stated. Bamboo has an alternate branching pattern, and if you look at the grain in a culm you will see that it has a zigzag pattern in the plane that the "leaf nodes" are in. If you take strips from opposite sides of the culm and place them opposite each other in a rod, the pattern of crooks an kinks in one strip reinforces the pattern in the strip opposite it. This will tend to make the rod section crooked to the extent that any of the bends in the original strips tend to return. If you take two strips that are adjacent to each other in the culm and place them opposite each other in a 2x2x2 stagger pattern (or 2x2 stagger for a quad) , the crooks and kinks in one strip are almost exactly the opposite those of the strip on the opposite side of the rod. The only problem is that the twists go in the same direction and reinforce each other. Once the twists are removed, the rod section will tend to remain straight. I take advantage of this in heat treating strips for 2-strip quads. For hex rods, I stagger strips (2x2x2) before heat treating. I staggered the strips for my first PMQ (1x1), and wound up with very crooked strips after heat treating, even though I had straightened them before heat treating them. When the strips have nearly zero moisture after heat treating, they are very difficult to straighten. Since then, I've take adjacent strips from the culm, placed them pith sides together with the nodes matched up, bound them very tightly with nylon, and they've come out of the oven just about as straight as they went in. (Robert Kope) Yes, I see. Indeed, I did misunderstand Mike's procedure concerning the selection of adjacent strips. And I do understand the reasoning behind forming opposing sets in the finished section. The theory seems very sound, and the practice may be very wise (as, particularly in the case with your PMQs). I would not contend otherwise. But, as the offending twists and kinks are those formed at node stations, and as we heat-straighten these (assuming we know our beans, here) and then glue the assembly into a laminate, I continue to believe that a greater number of straightening problems attend to the binding process than to relentless and unforgiving grain configurations. But, finally, I also do not believe that any one of us can argue the matter either way for very long. And certainly none of us is in a position to claim with justice that one way is simply "good practice," while others simply are not. (Bill Harms) Don't put a $100 saddle on a $5 horse. What glue are you planning to use? Chances are very good that the strips will be fine when you heat-set the glue. (Harry Boyd) You may be right. I put some strips in the oven at 250 for a couple of minutes and they are fine. (Paul Franklyn) I've done some small tests of short sections that have: 1) been untreated; 2) that have been varnished (two coats of MOW ends coated with paraffin); 3) that have been impregnated with Deks Olje (see archives), or 4) that have been impregnated with paraffin (see Best of the Planing Form Volume 2). The sections were suspended in a sealed plastic container above a small amount of water for a few days. I assumed this resulted in a saturated atmosphere. Weights taken before and after treatment indicated that the untreated section absorbed the most water, the varnished section absorbed less, but more than the impregnated sections, the impregnated sections both absorbed some and similar amounts. (Bill Lamberson) I live in Northeast Tennessee and in the summer months where the humidity is high, it can cause those kinds of problems. I am fortunate that I have central heat and air in my basement with a special return air cut in for the basement. Even with all that I still run a dehumidifier. (Joe Byrd)
Would you: A- go ahead and use it knowing it will leave a glue-line? B- Make another strip from a leftover butt strip knowing the nodes won't match up right? C- make a one-tip rod? A is the most tempting but if folks feel there will be a performance difference I'd go to B. Option C would make me paranoid about going ahead and enjoying the rod. (Henry Mitchell) Oh, the shame of it, using a bamboo rod with a glue line, oh wait, many of my favorite rods have glue lines many of the rods we praise from the past had glue lines. Henry it all depends on how much it will bother you, the rod will cast the same either way. It is a personal thing. Like a fly tier who uses his rejects, as a rod maker I have no problem using some of my earlier rods with glue lines or mistakes I make now, for my own personal use. Rod have been and are being made with strips from different culms. Winston does today. If it is going to bother you the rest of your life go with the one tip if not it really does not make any difference, in my opinion. (David Ray) Where would Phillipson be in the scheme of things with their "purple" glue line. (Leo deMonbreun) Dennis Higham has a little cheater technique that may save the day for you, but I think he had better explain it to you. I have never used it, but I saw him fix an open glue line so that it was not detectable. E-mail him and tell him I sent you. (Ralph Moon) This is a way to save a strip that is structurally sound but has a little divot out of a node or a gap caused by a tearing node. I go to the stack of split strips that I didn't use and pull one out. I use my froe or a pocket knife to shave off some strips just to square up one edge of the strip. Then I cut/whittle off 4 or 5 strips about 1"-3" long and maybe a 64th on an inch thick. I don't measure just whittle off a few short pieces. I pick one that fits the divot pretty well, then, curved side up, I hold it flat on my bench and sand it smooth with 220 grit sandpaper. I either place a drop of super glue on the patch and hold it against the divot or usually place the patch against the divot and hold it in place then put a drop of thin super glue on the bamboo where the two faces meet and let capillary action pull the glue into the repair. I spray it with super glue accelerator and the patch is permanently part of the strip. Two important things...1..be sure to place the patch's enamel side just a little higher than the strips enamel side and 2...be very careful not to super glue your fingers to everything :-} ..(might be a good idea to have some super glue solvent handy just in case). I then place the strip enamel side up in my planing forms and sand the patch flush with the top of the strip. Then flip the strip over with the patch side up and sand and/or scrape the patch flush with the strip. I use a small unbodied scrapper or a utility knife blade to scrape from the center of the patch out and then sand with 220 grit until flush and smooth. Dry fit the patched strip against another strip and check the fit. Sand or scrape a little more until everything fits seamlessly. After glue up I can usually find the patch if I know which node to look at and use a 5x magnifier but just looking at the blank in the sunlight it's not visible. (Dennis Higham) It is just a fishing pole. I say this in jest as I am one that goes to pieces with glue lines. I would not hesitate in using a strip from another culm or the butt even if the nodes don't come up as 3X3 or 2X2 or what ever staggering you are using. Glue lines are just in the eye of the beholder. Yes, I know what you mean about having them. I am one of the worst that preaches about glue lines. I would make another strip, it is still going to bother you almost as bad as having a glue line. As far as one tip rods goes, my first five rods are all one tip rods. The best thing to do as far as I am concerned is finish the rod with one tip. Fish the heck out of it. If it breaks, make a second tip and keep using it. The fish don't care at all, They don't seem to care about the replacement tip on my rod # 1. How did the tip # 1 break, I was standing on the leader when I offered it to a friend to cast. If you have not read the article on The Twisted Miss, let me know, I will send it to you. It was made from leftovers from about twelve different culms. Just had another thought, If you are using 2X2 staggering, Make two new strips and you should be able to stagger the nodes evenly. (Tony Spezio) Marrying in another strip from a culm that has a similar node spacing. Works fine. The cane chip works OK as well - have used epoxy to hold it - blends well. (Don Anderson)
So I'm in the garage the other night checking out the node areas preparing for final planing, and I flexed a strip. I heard a cracking sound and flexed a little more, and the strip snapped at the node. Being concerned that I had overcooked a node during straightening and pressing, I then flexed the strip at another node and snapped the strip again. Tried it again with two other strips in the same lot. Same result: Snap! Followed by a couple expletives. So I called it quits for the night, annoyed and assuming that I had probably overcooked a number of nodes and would need to start with a new culm. Last night I started splitting out a new culm. Out of curiosity, I flexed a strip and again it snapped at the node. More expletives... this time with some head scratching. These are clean breaks right at the node; none of that "interlocking power fiber" thing for me. With less force than it would take to snap a pencil, these strips are snapping at the node. I took two more culms out of storage and split out some 1/4" to 3/8" strips. Flexed these new strips and the same thing happened. When flexed to breaking between the nodes, the strips do not break clean across... there is some splintering. But not at the nodes. Even tried it with a strip over 1/2" wide. It took a little more effort, but the result is the same. Is this normal? I really have no idea since I've been nodeless thus far. Am I just trashing perfectly good bamboo? I hope not. These are poles from a bundle I purchased in 98. All poles have been store indoors with central AC/heat. Any advice or insight? Tomato stakes? (Eric Koehler) I think your wasting good cane. When pressing and straightening I have snapped several just as you described. Usually because they weren't hot enough. I don't see where it is an issue as the the staggering of the nodes will result in the nodes resting in between two internodal sections. (Lee Orr) It doesn't make sense to me that you also had the same problem with the second culm before heating, pressing, and straightening the nodes. When I teach classes, I always demonstrate how strips break. When I try to break a strip that has just been split and the nodes have not been touched except for some filing, the strip always breaks somewhere besides the node. I then do the same demonstration on a node that has been heated and pressed and the strip always breaks right at the node (fairly easily to). Did you flame these culms first? If so, are you flaming the nodes more than the rest of the culm? I have found that without any heat treatment, the nodes are the strongest part of a strip but with even a little heat, snap goes the node. I have a theory that because nodal fibers are shorter, when the lignin is heated it no longer has enough power to grab these shorter fibers. (Jeff Fultz) It doesn't make sense to me either... After the first couple breaks at the nodes on the 60 degree strips I decided to try two other culms. One had been flamed, the other one had no treatment other than the split I put in all the poles upon receiving them. On the flamed one, I tried to be as uniformly consistent as I could be across the surface. No more or less heat at the node. After finding the same symptom on the untreated culm, I pulled another culm and had the same thing happen. So: One set of untapered strips (snap); strips from three more culms, two untreated, one flamed (snap, crackle, pop). It's really surprising to me how easily and cleanly these strips are breaking. Maybe I should soldier on with these strips and see if they'll make a rod that will make a second cast. There are too many whitetail deer in our neighborhood for me to bother with tomato plants. Anyone have another alternate use for bamboo of dubious quality? I guess I could practice my splitting technique. (Eric Koehler)
The question: "Is there enough power fibers in the tip part of a culm to use to make a butt section for a rod?" Has anyone tried this and what has been the result? (Tom Peters) As long as there is enough fiber density across the apex of each strip you should be OK. Would try making a 9' 9 wt butt though. (Pete Van Schaack) Check the density and thickness of the fibers in your culm and the 1/2 diameter of the butt you're preparing to make. If the fibers look OK in density (compare 'em to another culm-butt) and run deeper than the 1/2 diameter, you should be fine. I wouldn't build a 9 ft 8 wt with it, but a 4 or 5 wt in 7 or 7 1/2 ft will probably be fine unless it has a swelled butt. If that's not what you're looking to build right now, put the piece aside for that PHY Smidgen or some such in your future. (Art Port) Go ahead and use them for butts. I wouldn't worry about the depth of power fibers even. EC Powell preferred culms with shallow power fibers. The scarcity of such culms was what inspired him to remove the inside of strips and, laminate softwood to them, to make his semi-hollow rods. Also, if you read the results of the structural tests that Bob Milward published in his book, the fibers from the 10' level of a culm were stronger and stiffer than those from the 1' level of the same culm. (Robert Kope) Robert is correct, I believe, as long as the cane itself is very good. When building hollow we often preserve a wall thickness of only .070" -- and that's thinner than the power fibers in the butt of a culm. There must be a point, however, where this line of thinking is no longer advisable, as I believe I'd worry about building, say, a spey (or tournament casting) rod from the tip of a culm. (Bill Harms)
There is no reason why what you suggest can not be done. But I wonder why you would want to. It is a lot like making a plane blade out of untempered steel. You can but why. I refer you to Bob Milward's Bamboo Fact Fiction and Flyrods. The elimination of water from 15% to 0% causes a structural change in the bamboo, that can never be achieved by air drying which will probably never be less than 10%. Although Milward agrees that heat treating result in some loss of strength in Bamboo, he points out that the constructive changes more than off set it. I know of no one who has ever advanced the theory that bamboo becomes harder/stronger with aging. I [personally think that contrary to what the Zen masters may promulgate Bamboo is NOT like Wine. It doesn't get any better with age. Additionally Milward says that if heat treated bamboo is soaked it will return to its previous state. (Ralph Moon) When you sufficiently heat anything containing sugars (and most other organic things too) you're going to alter it's original state and it will be unreversible. Imagine two identical cubes of sugar one cube of sugar left on a table top under glass for 100 years. Imagine heating another cube for 2 minutes. You'll never make the two be identical ever again. (Tony Young) Thanks for the responses especially appreciate the Drying Thread's Milward tangent that seems to have spun off from the initial inquiry. Helpful but still not sure why some of the old masters were so against any excessive heat treatment. Guess I need to sacrifice some of my splines for experimentation but something continues to nag me regarding the excessive heating and then soaking of the cane. Currently working with splines that were all cut and split in the mid 40's and it is not that they have become petrified but they exhibit the same desired metallic type sound when they are dropped or rolled together - that same tone that comes from fully cured ammonia treated or flamed splines cut from quality bamboo. Obviously having trouble explaining it but I do find the sound that the spline gives off when tapped against concrete has been an added indicator to overall quality. All of the pith on this 60 plus year old cane has the same tone as on my more recently harvested culms (5 yrs or less) yet when scraped away the underlying bamboo has definitely undergone some change as the tone is essentially a light brown tone definitely not blond so, I am hesitant to hydrate this bamboo as although it is tough to plane I generally feel like its one of those -nothing really worth it comes easy - things. I know that my favorite sounding musical instruments were all built with excessively aged hardwoods - something about superior reverberation characteristics ........ Thoughts? Thanks again. (Rob Smith) PS - And just to really stir it up - Still think pre embargo bamboo is better than 95% of the bamboo available today simply due to its ability to have grown slower and more naturally at the time thus producing MUCH denser fibers at the outer edge of the pole with a quicker falling to interior pith - thus rendering better general weight to strength ratio. JMHO of course! Beyond page 64 of the book where it is written, "Gary felt that properly selected and seasoned bamboo would have the desired temper if, after heat-treating..... the resultant color was a light or medium straw.... bamboo fibers heat treated beyond this slight color change ran a serious risk of becoming brittle with age and use...... brown toning - a cosmetic coloration added to many rods, is an example of what Gary considered unnecessary heat treating"........ Looking for more support to this belief of theory. Anyone? One maker of serious lineage (I believe all his cane is pre 30's) pointed out to me that many of the old masters did not worry about heat treatment at all as there bamboo stocks all generally came from initial purchases made decades earlier and that this aged characteristic was actually an essential part of the process and not until newer makers such as Garrison and Dickerson entered the game and had to deal with what he calls wet bamboo did the concept of heat treatment begin to be discussed. As well he noted that the use of flame was minimal and used simply to color the bamboo not necessarily as an effect on its characteristic and that over burning even the slightest bit was detrimental to the final rods potential. (As a separate note I think the overall color tone of the heralded Payne finish was as much effected by his varnish tint as his ring of fire treatment). That said I do not disagree with the obvious change in characteristics produced from heat treating most bamboo and definitely consider it quite necessary. I do wonder if something doesn't happen to bamboo after a half a century or so though. Seems like no greater state of equilibrium and or optimal temper could possibly be obtained if the bamboo is allowed to age appropriately and without the post effects of any accelerators. Comments? I have consistently come across other notes to albeit shorter waiting times too such as for after sections are glued and as to a reaction to the moisture obtained in the bamboo from the GLUE (forget about soaking the stuff)..... "waiting for the sections to thoroughly dry. Its a hard job - but - a good rod so demands. Do not attempt forcing methods, dry kilns, hot boxes or radiators. Put the sticks in a warm, not hot, dry place. Six months under the most favorable conditions is the minimum time for safety. A year would be better." (Nat Uslan). He goes on to state that failing to do so is the primary reason for ferrule to bamboo failure and that if there are any concerns regarding that the ferrules should then be pinned! Maybe WHEN we glue ferrules is more important that WHAT we glue ferrules with? Regarding Pre Embargo - Having delaminated a lot of older pre embargo built bamboo sections and being fortunate enough to have obtained enough raw stock for a few rods... have started to form opinions.... personally feel Edwards probably had some of the best overall bamboo.... think perhaps overall house techniques of the initial major manufacturers were even effected by the initial quality of their stock..... it is all but my humble opinion of course, but I do not know how one can really argue with the concept of a piece of bamboo with the exterior power fibers being almost solid and without any pith veins for an optimal thickness then falling almost immediately to a solid white pith material as being lighter than its volumetric equivalent and due to the ultra dense power fibers, more powerful and thus a superior building material. It is this concept or desire for such bamboo that led E.C Powell to produce his cedar lined ultra light ultra powerful rods.... "Occasionally a cane is found that is with a thin rind of very dense fibers that break off suddenly into pith. This latter form of growth gives the desired results as to a combination of strength and great lightness" (EC Powell US Pat #1932986). (Rob Smith) Maybe I am being a bit funny here and I type this with a smile. I am 76 years young but if I had to age my culms for fifty years in order not to heat treat them, well you get the gist. LOL. I heat treat because I must. Maybe I am reading this wrong. BTW I do have some pre embargo bamboo that has been split out into strips over 30 years ago. I do find the strips are harder to plane. They also seem to make a stiffer rod. I have made a couple of rods from these strips that I did not heat treat. Maybe there strips were heat treated. I have no way to ask the previous owner, he has gone to bamboo heaven. I also have a culm that came from Jim Payne's shop. I have not split it yet. (Tony Spezio) Interesting--- It seems that regardless of the quality of the cane they had the Edwards felt that they could improve it by heat treating. The following is taken from A.J. Campbell's Classic and Antique Fishing Tackle: Around 1915 Edwards discovered his heat treating process that flamed the cane to a dark brown and, more important, added amazing power to the shaft. This was the first radical change in bamboo rodmaking since the adaptation of Tonkin cane. I have Edwards made rods dating back to the 20's and up to the 1950's. All of them are flame mottled and none of them have taken a set. I do have the impression that their shafts may be a bit more brittle than others. (Doug Easton) The best thing that you can do is make two rods from the same taper, one with non-heat treated very old bamboo and the other with heat treated very old bamboo from the same culm and see if there is in fact any difference. By the way, the "ring of fire" treatment was a Paul H. Young feature, not a Payne thing. In terms of damage, heat treating bamboo within reason does not seem to hurt anything while providing a good starting point for those of us not blessed with 50 year old bamboo stock. This is all based on my limited experience, so don't put too much credence in what I say. I have cast a PHY Driggs River Special made by Paul Young himself and another made by his company and both were heat treated to the point of being very brown and both were at least 50 years old and neither showed the slightest sign of any damage from the "ring of fire" treatment. I think that we, as a group, tend to worry too much about what might detract from perfection and not enough about just planing cane. (Hal Manas) Hal, Right on! Rob, It might just be another case were Mr. Garrison has tried to intimidate. It wouldn't be the only time. We, as a collective group, have made way more rods than Mr. Garrison ever did. In fact, we have probably made more of his rods than he ever did! (belch) ... sorry. We, (the group, list, brothers) have put in hundreds (thousands) of collective hours and we always seem to come up with the same thing. We share what works for us and is repeated, with thanks, by others consistently. BTW, my thanks to you all! Now, I'm not at all knocking Mr. Garrison. IMHO, he saved bamboo rodmaking. And, as complicated as he made it seem, it was still within our grasp to make a damn rod! It simply is not as complicated as the way he apparently wanted to live. That was his choice (apparently) and he liked it. So, what does this all mean? How the hell do I know! My name's not Mr. Garrison! Do yourself a favor if you have the time. Make both rods as suggested. See which one you like best. Figure out why. When you figure it out, please share! Dark brown, light brown, tan, golden, oh don't forget, you can't heat set the glue in this little experiment. (Mike Shay) Just an excellent presentation of some of our earlier rodmakers and their concerns about heat-treating! Some championed the process, and some hated everything about it. Most agreed that a good culm could be made better with modest heat-treating, but a questionable culm was beyond hope. Also, there was a great deal of concurrence that, in a good culm, extensive seasoning would accomplish the same results as modest heat treating, but with none of the possible dangers. We have a multitude of good reasons to heat-treat, but we may not proceed with impunity. As Milward explains, our structure is only cellulose. Like bread, its sugars will quickly caramelize under heat and turn the structure to toast. Any of our members ever put a piece of toasted bread to the flexing test? The higher our heat, and the more the color change, the greater the risk to longevity (in a fly rod as in toasted bread). Many of the very finest rods have had no heat-treating at all, and there's little reason to suppose they would be still better with it. Modest (how modest?) heat-treating seems to help us all, but it is not something we should take for granted or go about without regard for possible consequences. (Bill Harms) Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but the lignin in bamboo is not just sugar (or carbohydrates) so the toast analogy is not quite accurate. I just confirmed this with the wife. She starts in on some ChemE babble about driving out water which removes the OH in the hydroxyl groups and creates Esther linkages (the double bond business). Basically, the cellulose molecule chains form cross-linkages. The end result of all this is that the bamboo: 1. is unable to absorb as much water (irreversible) 2. becomes stiffer 3. becomes more brittle The trick or art, I suppose, is finding the ideal time, temperature, application of heat energy to make the bamboo at hand, more hydrophobic, stiffer, but not too brittle. (Rick Crenshaw) I personally hold the naked blank in my bare hands and turn it as though cooking a fine culinary slab of beef that is three inches thick in my 450+ F General Electric 300 hp. thrust vector pipe oven. Slowly watching the juice suck out of here in complete control. Then I flame the tip to an amber fade to near black. I will have photos on web soon. Does anyone else flame tip? Cellulose membranes collapse at high rates and you can feel it if you bind tight enough. (Jeremy Hebert) Regarding flamed or overly heat treated bamboo, I have been told that you can actually see cracked cells when viewed under a microscope. Does this cracking of the cells represent these Esther linkages or cross links or do they occur naturally after the extensive aging process? (Rob Smith) Thanks for wishing me good luck, and for the information provided by your wife. I do not see, however, that you have "burst my bubble" in any manner. The fact that the lignins are not comprised entirely of cellulose does not alter Rob's or my contention concerning cell breakdown resulting from the dangers of excessive heat. (Bill Harms) Well, Bill, you are entirely correct that too much heat or perhaps too long an exposure will damage the bamboo beyond the desired effect of a stiffer material. (Rick Crenshaw) Thank you, Rick! I am unable to understand why people continue to assume that bamboo is made of sugar. Candy canes, perhaps? It is nice to have a believable account of the chemical changes occurring in bamboo during heat treatment, which is a thing a lot of use successfully all the time. I have a good friend who is a wood chemist, and he is in complete agreement with the things your wife is saying. I know that I should not be saying this (there is a phenomenon that Australians call "putting the mockers on" ) but in just over 80 rods, I have not had a disaster with heat treatment; and I do a 2-phase thing, with an initial toning process with a butane torch and a later oven drying of the partially planed strips bound together. Jim Payne never ever did anything called a "Ring of Fire". That was PHY. Facts, facts, facts........ Get 'em right and the rest becomes so much more believable! (Peter McKean) Hear, hear Peter! I agree wholeheartedly! I also do the two step process (propane torch to I have landed Deschutes steelhead on trout rods, and have no sets yet! As an aside, but related topic, Paul Young was a strong believer in relieving stresses in a rod after playing a big fish. he advocated vigorously waving, or more accurately wiggling, the rod side to side in rapid short motions after landing a big fish. Having tried it (after catching a large fish, where the rod showed a mild "set" or memory of the fight) it works exceptionally well (the rod is subsequently as straight as it started out) and has been perfectly straight ever since. Skeptics might not believe it works, but it certainly doesn't hurt anything to try. (Chris Obuchowski) You are absolutely right, this will remove a set after catching a good fish or fishing fast current with a sinking line. (Tony Young) Well, in Bill's defense much of the material in bamboo is carbohydrate and some sugars. It is just that there is much more to bamboo than sugar and carbohydrates in the form you are used to thinking of. Taste some! I mean, look, there are very few animals that can live off of bamboo as a staple. Giant Pandas for one, but few others. Cellulose is basically carbohydrates strung together to form very long molecules. Getting those molecules to form stronger bonds that bind them and tie up the charges that attract OH groups (bound water) is the key. However... Too much heat will damage the tensile strength and MOE of the bamboo. The argument should revolve around how much temperature and for how long. Not treating at all leaves a much less stable material. What happens with a rod made of untreated bamboo is a question that deserves some attention. But the material will be less stable... that is a certainty. (Rick Crenshaw) It doesn't matter if it's sugar or not, but as it happens it's there along with other things too. The point is they're organic compounds that alter after being heated. It's simpler to just call them sugars and leave it at that there's a limit to what matters when yer buildin' fishin' poles. (Tony Young) | |||
