I have used spar varnish in a dip tank and am pleased with the coverage but is there a good way to de-gloss the high sheen on the final coat?  (Bruce Combest)

Sure is, just use it awhile, it will dull down soon enough.  (John Channer)

Meguires auto polish, in the tan bottle, #2, will do  quite nicely.  As you might suspect, test it before you start rubbing away on your rod.  (Harry Boyd)

I lightly rub down with steal wool 00 enough to get rid of gloss and any blemishes or dust, then polish with bowling alley wax to protect.  (Pete Van Schaack)

Moisten a small piece of felt, actually don't have it dripping but put a good amount of linseed oil on it.  put on the felt enough Rotten stone so that you can't see any powder.  Rub the finish until you get the look you want.  Wipe with mineral spirits.  I use Behlens Buffer's Polish.  It comes in #1, #2, #3 and finishing.  #1 will put a satin sheen on the finish.  Work your way up the numbers until you have the finish you are looking for.  If you go all the way it will shine/gloss better than when you started because you will have rubbed out any minute imperfections.  (Dennis Aebersold)

I have a block of wood with a 1/2" thick slab of felt glued to it that I use for rubbing out the finish on cabinetwork. I apply some mineral oil to it and dab it into some rotten stone and rub it lengthwise on the strip, counting the passes so as to get all sides to the same point. Works for me!  (Art Port)

If you use it with tres bien furniture polish (non silicone) its as easy as putting on hand lotion. In varnishing instruments I sand with 220, hit it with 0000 steel wool and tres bien and then go over it with rotten stone and tres bien and you can comb your hair in the gloss. From start to finish takes maybe one hour to sand and polish a upright bass.  (Patrick Coffey)

Spar varnish polishes back to the original shine to the point where you can't tell it's been polished with 3x magnifiers, that's what I like about spar. Just use 3M's Perfect-It and Finesse-It polishing compounds, they work like a charm.  (John Channer)

I agree that any marks can be rubbed out, and this may have something to do with the spar I'm using, but there is a distinct difference between the gloss out of the can and anything I can create by rubbing, and I've tried many different compounds. Based on your experience, I suspect it's the varnish I'm using. (Martin-Darrell)

I used to use Man-O-War and it polished very well, the only problem with it is it tends to pull out to the corners and leave a little valley over the flats,  kind of makes the rod look clover shaped or something. On the recommendation of Ron Kusse (a little harmless name dropping there), I've been using Last & Last Marine and Door Spar Varnish and it not only polishes out great, but it lays flat on the rod, no valley to sand down to. Try it, you'll like it.  (John Channer)

Never heard of Last & Last varnish. I've had a problem with valleys using Epiphanes. Where do you get this? Who makes it?  (Bill Hoy)

I see the Last & Last spar at my local paint store. I use Prat & Lambert Spar and have loved it. Quite expensive though $ 23 a quart and $60 a gallon.  (Marty DeSapio)

Thought I'd try again, others interested too. Need part or order numbers for 3M's Perfect-It & Finesse it polish. 3M makes several compounds under the Perfect-It name;  looking for correct product.  (Chad Wigham)

You want the Perfect-It II Rubbing Compound #39002 and Finesse-It II Machine Polish #39003.  (John Channer)

I use Helmsman Spar Urethane. I find that if I need to sand the final coat that I can't get the shine back up to its original luster. There was a thread on something called Flitz (or something like that) to bring the luster back up. Could someone let me know how to get it? None of my suppliers know anything about it.  (Hank Woolman)

P.S. I've used Meguires, Perfect It, etc. Butcher's Wax has done the best so far.

Flitz is a metal polish, often used in polishing silver.  Some of the places near you that sell silverware will have it.  They have a web site, too.  But I don't know what it is.  (Harry Boyd)

For all interested.  Flitz web site is www.flitz.com  (Bob Nunley)

There is also a more widely sold (Home Depot? I think) copy of Flitz, except it is pink (Flitz is blue).  Be forewarned:  Flitz leaves a greasy residue.  (George Bourke)

There are two different Perfect-It II's.  You may have the coarser grit one.  Have you tried the other one?  It has a much finer grit, and works really nice for bringing back the luster of the urethane.  It does take quite a bit of elbow grease to make it work.  I think it was Sir Nunley that mentioned that in order for the Perfect-It to work, heat needs to be generated to make the surface flow back to fill in the scratches.  I sanded down a few nubs on my last rod, the one I made for my wife, using 1000 grit wet/dry, and used the finer Perfect-It, rubbing rather vigorously, and the spots came out very well.  You couldn't tell it had been sanded.  (Mark Wendt)

I forgot to mention, 3M has changed their line somewhat, the products are now called Perfect-It III, and the two we use would be the Machine Glaze, part number 05937, and Finishing Glaze, part number 05941.  Of the two, the finishing glaze will really bring out the shine, although it does need more work to do it's job.  (Mark Wendt)

The one I have is Perfect-It III Rubbing Compound part # 05933. Do I have the wrong stuff?  (Marty DeSapio)

That's the rubbing compound.   I think you have one of the right ones.  I might have given bad info, the Finishing glaze is more like a polish to finish everything up.  They changed all the durned formulations  and  part  numbers  when they  switched to  the Perfect-It III.  When I went to the auto body supply shop and asked the fella that ran the place which compound I should use, he pointed me to the machine glaze.  He was out of stock on the Perfect-It II, which didn't have as many varieties, and said the Finishing Glaze was the last thing that the shops use after they've used the rubbing compound and Machine Glaze.  I used the Machine Glaze, which is designed to be used with those electric buffers, which generate heat during the buffing.  Took a lot of elbow grease, but the 2000 grit sanding marks disappeared.  (Mark Wendt)

For many rods I tried to get the perfect finish out of the  dip tube, and produced some pretty crappy rods as a result. I do not have a dust free dipping  tube environment;  in fact, mine is not even moth-free.

I am now producing a finish on my rods that I think is pretty good, and what I do is this - after the final coat, which I try to make as dust and blemish free as I can, I go through a polishing procedure that involves Perfect It 1, followed by Perfect It 2, Finesse It, and finally Meguires Plastic Polish.

Perfect It 1 is quite gritty, and will cut out a lot of the major imperfections, the others progressively improve the finish. I use my Dremel tool with a  felt pad using the Perfect It 1, on low speed, to smooth out the varnish on the wraps. You stuff up a few to begin with but pretty soon get the hang of it.

The resulting finish is not as glossy/glittery as the raw PU varnish, but has a deep, lustrous sheen that is pretty classy.

I should mention that I sand the hell out of the successive varnish coats prior to the application of the final coat with 1500 and 2000 grit wet & dry paper.  (Peter McKean)

I am in the process of building a dipping apparatus so this thread is very timely. I plan to use clear Plexiglas tubing about 1" diameter with a valve in the bottom so  I can control the rate at which the varnish drains. My thought processes suggest that if I drain the varnish and then leave the section in the tube overnight before moving it to a drying chamber then I should get no lint or dust on the finish. My question is will the varnish setup up past the tacky point if it is left hanging in the tube 24 hours or will the fact that it is in a small tightly enclosed chamber slow the drying time considerably? If so would placing a piece of nylon stocking over the top allow it to breathe a littler more?  (Larry Puckett)

I'd like to ask a question in addition to this one.  What do people who use a drain tube setup do about varnish in the guides?

In a dip tube setup you just clear the guides but how do you do this if the guides are 2 feet from the access?  (Tony Young)

I close the valve when the varnish drains below the guide and allow the residual to catch up.  Occasionally you'll get a bubble in the guide, more likely the stripper, but it'll pop, sometimes later than sooner, normally within a minute.  (Ed Riddle)

I'll probably be flamed to the ends of the earth for  saying this, but you varnish the blank not the metal!  Not a single Payne, Howells, Leonard, Carpenter, or Dickerson in my possession has any varnished metal.  If you just dip after putting the fittings on, you'd better dip the cork and reel seat too otherwise the blank will absorb moisture under the cork grip.  (George Bourke)

I always apply varnish to the bare blank and sometimes again after adding grip, reel-seat, ferrules, guides and wraps.  But I never apply varnish to the grip and reel seat.  (Ed Riddle)

I suppose the simplest answer is to suggest that you varnish the ferrules, reel seat and cork and then go and fish with the result. When you have done this you wont need to take our word on why you should not do it!  I have even heard of people whipping the ferrule itself. Cane has quite enough parasitic weight, without adding more. if you don't like the idea of a metal ferrule use a cane one, it’s cheaper, too.

You can also legitimately whip it, although I should have thought that Kevlar thread would be better than silk, although silk(and terylene)are a much better option than nylon, which stretches. The first thing that any engineer is taught is the properties of materials, there is a saying that there are no wrong materials, only wrong applications, I commend the concept to you all.  (Robin Haywood)

I just purchased a Wright & McGill Granger Deluxe GD9050.  The varnish looks to be in very good condition but needs polishing.  I'm looking for some advise on what to use and how to use it.  (Bob Murphy)

Pick up a copy of Michael Sinclair's restoration handbook. There are detailed instructions for polishing with Brownells polishing compounds.  (Jeff Schaeffer)

My experience with Brownells is that its pretty course, will take the varnish off and hard to bring back a shine. 2000 grit sand paper type polishing. If you're going for a "clean & shine" use 3M Perfect-It. It'll take more rubbing, but with good results. Machine Polish #39003 & Rubbing Compound fine cut # 39002 can be found at an automotive/paint oriented store.  (Chad Wigham)

I sort of work backwards. Like Chad, I would advise the mildest treatment first. If you don't get anywhere then go to a more aggressive polish and work back to the finer grits (no, you do not put butter on these!).  I just polished out a Divine I started with a good washing with Murphy's oil soap. Then I went to 3M Imperial hand glaze and it didn't polish much. So, I went to a slurry of pumice in mineral spirits; then to rottenstone in mineral oil and finally to the hand glaze. It is just amazing what you can accomplish with polishing. The rubbing will mobilize some of the old varnish and it will lose it's crazed appearance. One warning. Not all varnish polishes the same. I have had little luck polishing Heddons. Granger varnish from the Wright & McGill era seems to be quite polishable. Edwards varnish from the 1950's seems to be a lot like Heddons, too soft to take a good polish.  (Doug Easton)

The triple "F" Brownells is pretty course but the 5 "F" produces a high gloss. I feel that 4/0 steel wool saturated with Brownells works better on old varnish then does the high tech rubbing compounds. Very important! Only my opinion. (Marty DeSapio)

All of the recent discussion on polishing varnished rods has raised my interest.  How do you apply the polish? Is it done by hand with a rag or by some kind of a buffing wheel?  Do you buff axially along each flat, one flat at a time?  How much pressure do you apply?  How long do you rub?  Do you keep rubbing after the compound dries out or not?

I am using Man-O-War spar varnish and 3M Perfect-It II Rubbing Compound (Part number 051131-05973.)  The instructions on the container are no help on a rod.  This stuff is a light tan liquid but dries out very rapidly.  Is there some little trick that I am missing?  (John Sabina)

The little trick you are missing, if your polished areas are coming out dull, is to use the Finesse It II Machine Polish when you are done with the Perfect it. I start on a blemish with 2000 grit used wet, butter optional, I just use spit, then go to the Perfect It then Finesse it. I just use a rag and rub like hell, keep the rag dampened with polish when it dries out. It takes me a couple of minutes per spot. In anything related to wood finishing, sanding, staining, varnishing or polishing, always go with the grain, the imperfections in what you are doing are much less likely to show than anything done cross grain. One other little thing, if you have to fix a spot on a wrap, expect to take twice as long with the Finesse it to bring it back to high gloss than you did getting rid of the sanding marks with the Perfect It, the Finesse It is a must on wraps, nothing else I know of will restore the original gloss like it. To end on a good note, MOW polishes very well, if you chase the spots long enough and hard enough, you will not be able to find them when you are done.  (John Channer)

Just to add a little bit to John's note - having finished all of my early rods to a finish that was, to say the least, underwhelming, I am now getting pretty obsessive about finish, and getting a little bit better at it each time, too.

I am  finding that having gone through the same routine of 2000 paper, Perfect It 1, Perfect It 2, and Finesse It, and having rubbed the finish to as good a finish as I can achieve, I can improve it even further by applying a final coat of Meguires Plastic Polish (and I'd give you the stock number of that if it didn't involve walking down to my workshop for about the 50th time today.

I went up to the Central Highland Lakes  this morning, usually a source of good (1 1/2 - 5 LB wild browns, usually on a dry fly) fish, but the wind was blowing so hard that I didn't bother to launch the boat. Came home and worked all afternoon, and finally had a beer at about 7:00 PM; believe me, it went down like a Vaseline oyster!  (Peter McKean)

I've got an itch to try some rotten stone  for polishing out the finish.  I use, and like, the automotive "swirl remover" type products, bit I just want to see if I am missing something good with the RS.  My understanding is that rotten stone is messy but is the traditional method for polishing.  Questions:

What type of oil should be used?  What is paraffin oil?

How should it be applied?  I've read something about felt pads and tampons, is this correct?  (Kyle Druey)

I use boiled linseed oil, mixing the rottenstone in to a consistency of really thick gravy (red eye for you enthusiasts).  I've had good success using a felt pad for rubbing it in.  It really doesn't take much to "sheen" out the rod with the rottenstone. The trick is to do it  the same way  you'd use a wet/dry sandpaper - let the grit do the work.  Remember, rottenstone has a much healthier grit than the polishes, it's more of a rubbing compound.  I use it to take the gloss off Helmsman spar gloss urethane, to make it look "satiny".  I really do like the finish the rottenstone gives.  (Mark Wendt)

Have you tried using unscented talcum powder mixed with oil?  It's supposed to do the same thing but much finer.  Although not as fine as cheese.  (Nick Kingston)

Haven't tried that one before.  Wonder if you can still get unscented talc here in the US.  I haven't seen it on the store shelves in years, when I used to use it in model airplane dope to fill the weave on silk for painting.  Anybody know?

Pretty cheesy Nick.  (Mark Wendt)

Cheesy is as cheesy does.

A friend used to use it to polish balsa floats. But he was a bit anally retentive (not just a perfectionist). So I'd be interested to know if it works on rods as well.  Maybe being unscented makes no difference.  Maybe the scented stuff works just as well. (Nick Kingston)

I believe "paraffin oil" is British English for kerosene.  I have also seen that felt pads are used (for furniture finishing) but have not tried it.

When I got my small lathe, I got it unassembled and the instructions said to mix oil and toothpaste to lap the surfaces.  I used WD-40 and whatever toothpaste I had at the time.  Worked very quickly.  It might be too aggressive  for rodmaking, I don't know.  I will have to try it.  I don't like a really high gloss finish on a rod.  (Neil Savage)

Toothpaste has a high amount of talcum in it.

Minty fresh rods mmmm. (Nick Kingston)

Cream tooth pastes are the least abrasive, like original Crest or Colgate.  Gels are the next, Anti-tartar the next, stain removal or smoker's like Topal and Pearl Drops the next and dental powder the most abrasive.  (Steve Cohen)

Years ago, we used to use toothpaste to polish out scratches on aircraft (plastic) windshields. It would not leave any swirls.  (Tony Spezio)

Cream toothpaste range all the way up to very abrasive. I used to use Crest (original) to break in small gears.  Consumer Reports does rate toothpaste abrasiveness (as it erodes tooth enamel).  (George Bourke)

I have been following this discussion on polishing with some interest as I have always used the swirl remover car polish which gives a great finish, but sometimes too good - the really good finish out of the dip tube has some imperfections revealed by polishing.

I have now got some rotten stone to use to take some of the gleam off the varnish but have wondered about the mention of toothpaste.  I am not intending to use toothpaste, but keep looking at my electric tooth brush and wondering if it may be ideal to use polish rods with using a rottenstone and water (or oil) paste. Knowing the ingenuity on this list I thought I should check if anyone else has spoiled a perfectly good toothbrush trying this before I try it and what was the result.?  (Ian Kearney)

My guess would be that the electric toothbrush would be too aggressive for polishing a rod, it would be apt to go through the varnish if used with rottenstone.  (If I remember right, rottenstone is finely ground limestone.)

I'd certainly try it on a test piece before I attempted it on a good rod -- who cares about the toothbrush, you don't want to ruin a lot of hard work on a rod!  (Neil Savage)

I've used rotten stone - works OK. I used a piece of chamois leather instead of felt and water as a lubricant.

There are at least 2 grades - use the finer.  (Don Anderson)

This is for other newbies:

Last night I was looking at my beautiful blonde quad.  The wraps were utterly perfect, but perhaps a little thick.  So, my nervousness get the best of me and I grab a soft cloth and some polishing compound and start trying to polish the wraps.  I was thinking that I could polish the wraps down a little bit.  I polish and polish and polish lengthwise.  And I polish and polish (you might think I was Polish- I'm Sicilian and Hungarian, actually).  My hand is hot.  I run over the guides, over the decorative wraps near the grip. 

When I stop polishing, I catch my breath and see that the darned polishing compound  lodged under the edges of my beautiful wraps.  So, I spend all evening with a toothpick and some denatured alcohol digging the little white line out of the edges all of my wraps.

I  backtracked  in my  mind at  that moment and tried to  hit Control-Z, but undo it did not.  Sucks!!!

In the end, I had to carefully clean the entire rod section and do another coat of spar on the wraps.  They now don't look quite as good as they did when I started.

Lesson learned-  Know when to leave well enough alone.  Fiddling just for fiddlings sake could screw-up days of exacting work.  If you are nervous, go lap something.  (Joe West)

Yes, but those little things will get to you and you will sooner or later decide to figure out a  way that works for you to deal with it.  I have a love/hate relationship with those nagging details.  They push me to fix them, but man are they nagging.  (Carl DiNardo)

Next time try a soft bristle toothbrush.  (Timothy Troester)

I have a student who wishes to take the shine off the varnished rod sections and I was wondering what most of you use.  If you use the rottenstone, what do you mix it with and what ratio do you mix it?  Do you do this after the guide wraps?  If not, do you take the gloss of the guide wraps too? How do you clean up the section after?  Any precautions I should look out for?  (Scott Grady)

I just did a rod last night with a satin finish. Just pour a teaspoon of rottenstone powder in a bowl, and drip in some mineral oil or olive oil until it gets like Hershey syrup. I apply with a felt pad, and do not do the guide wraps. You could hit the area between the wraps with a q tip dipped into the slurry. If you use mineral oil, it can sit around for weeks without going bad.

The only thing to watch out for is not catching the tip of the rod with your felt- I snapped one clean off once. Some like to bring the polish back up a bit with 3M perfect it, then 3M finesse it.

I have started rubbing down all my rods - Even spar can look like plastic if it is not dulled down a bit. You are shooting for a warm glow - not completely matte, but not a mirror shine.

The nice thing about this process is that you can get rid of most dust motes and imperfections with the rottenstone, then leave as is or bring it back to a higher luster.

And finally, if you want to bring it back to a near mirror, use Hut plastic polish available at woodcraft. It is one of the most versatile final polishes I have found for just about any material.  (Jeff Schaeffer)

Rottenstone and water also work well together, easier to cleanup than oil.  (Randy Tuttle)

DuPont number 7 rubbing compound.  (Chris Obuchowski)

I have a rod 1 week fresh from its final varnish dip (Varmor).  What's the consensus opinion on polishing?  Should I hit it now while the varnish is still soft, or should I wait a few weeks for it to harden more?  (Greg Kuntz)

It's most likely hard enough to polish now, I only wait 3 days here in Colorado. Longer is better, you want the varnish hard rather than soft to either sand or polish it.  (John Channer)

After a week the varnish (Varmor Poly is hard).  (Marty DeSapio)

P&L Varmor is my choice for a finish on all my rods. Urethane varnish is very hard when dry (unlike spar it dries to a very hard finish in 24 hours) If you polish with 3M’s Perfect-It and Fines It you will need to also use 3M’s Perfect It 3 It has a little more cut than Perfect It. Urethane varnish is so hard when dry that Perfect it will not touch it (this quality is why I use it) It will polish out as well as spar but unlike spar you should get at it before 24 hours as  it keeps  getting harder (isn't that what you would want?).  (Dave Norling)

I've been using Varathane for years and it was a snap to polish. The finish is hard enough that dust specs could be easily removed. Switched to a Spar Urethane [Minwax] which is a lot more flexible material and the dust specs are a SOB. Any ideas what type a abrasive/technique would work?  (Don Anderson)

I don't know if this is any assistance, but I've used a number of different varnishes over here in Australia (which probably don't correlate to the brands you have in the US). I've had general success with the 3M cloth abrasives, which come in 3 grades (Bailey Woods sells them). I use the coarse or medium to knock the top off a dust spot, the fine one to work it smooth, and then finish up with a rag and some Auto detailing swirl remover.

I'm not sure how soft the varnish is that your using though. The only other thing maybe is to keep the rubbing pressure very light to avoid tearing into the varnish, which is a road to a world of pain I've been down before.  (Nick Taransky)

I use 0000 steel wool and Brownells or 3M finesse it. Also don’t wait a few days, rub it out fairly quick. 1 day or so.  (Dave Henney)

I've got three coats of shellac and tung oil on and am just thinking if I rubbed on a coat of wax I could most likely get more "Gloss" out of the finish.  I know the automotive industry has some interesting types of wipe on finishes on the market, like poly glycoats that apparently go beyond just basic carnuba wax.  I've personally used a product called "Liquid Glass" that claims the product has ground glass particles and when wiped on and put in the sun it bonds to the underlying finish. You can build up as much as you like as each coat bonds to the previous. Pretty good stuff - I put it on the dash of my 57 Chevy truck after I painted it and rubbed 20 -25 coats on it - that was back in ' 83,  and I've not touched that dash for 20 years and it just looks like it has a coat of glass on it to this day (hasn't changed one bit over time) 

Pros and cons anyone?  (John Silveira)

I know the automotive industry has some interesting types of wipe on finishes on the market, like polyglycoats that apparently go beyond just basic carnuba wax.

Two things to be aware of here.  First, any sort of automotive finish with silicones in it (which cuts a fairly broad swath) will make refinishing difficult down the road, as stuff really doesn't want to stick to it.  This is good for autos, shedding dirt, road grime, etc., but you'll probably curse it if you ever need to strip and refinish a rod so treated.

Second, some of these auto finishes may react with the varnish/oil/etc. on the rod, and lead to slumping, crazing, etc.  All depends on what is used on the rod and the composition of the finishing product in question.  Never hurts to run some tests before slathering your  entire rod collection with some wonder goo.  :-)

I've personally used a product called "Liquid Glass" that claims the product has ground glass particles and when wiped on and put in the sun it bonds to the underlying finish .

Eeek!  Ground glass is quite abrasive.  If it's fine, it'd be on a par with rubbing compound, if coarser, more like sandpaper in its effect.  Not sure I'd want that near a good varnish/oil job, and certainly no where near ferrules.

Sure, there are wonder "waxes" these days, but keep in mind they are designed to go over something a fair bit  different than tung oil or spar varnish.  May work, may not, and may have undesirable side effects down the road.  Best to test, IMHO, before using extensively.

Stuff rated for "wood furniture" is probably safer, but again, beware silicones.  Read the label, if nothing else.

FWIW, real carnuba paste wax works pretty well, when you come down to it.  (Todd Enders)

It has been a couple of years since the last time, so here goes. Check here.

OK, so that happens to be the most expensive wax there, the site is worth a read, they have a wealth of information about waxes.  (Larry Blan)

One of my graphite rod building friends has been using Liquid Glass as the only finish on  the wooden parts of his rods for years.  He likes it, and tried to convince me to use it.  So far I haven't but might if I called the technical support people at LQ and learned a little more about the product.

You already know more about finishing than lots of us.  Why don't you explore it a little more and give us a report?  (Harry Boyd)

I got my hands a little too far apart while polishing a new tip section with steel wool and put a rather nasty bend in the upper 1/3 of the section.  Nothing broke and no fiber lifted, but it put an unfortunate kink in the section that took another 1/2 hour over a heat gun to straighten out.  Everything seems solid - did I do any permanent damage?

I guess that's one way to test  the quality of my splices and glue up.

Note to self - When polishing sections move hand towards the skinny end ONLY.   (Bill Benham)

If it kinked and did not break, I suspect you may not have heat treated enough. It is just a guess. Fish it like it is, it might take another set or it might be just fine.

I would be interested in knowing what it does. BTW, I am polishing out a rod today.

Here is a tip on steelwooling the tip ends. Lay the tip section flat on the table. Steel wool the flat that is up with the bottom flat laying flat on the table. This will work for all but the flat opposite the guides. The flat with the guides is placed on the corner of the table with the corner between the guides. Doing this allows you to put some pressure on the steel wool on the flats and will keep the section from flexing. If the flat next to the flat with the guides will not lay flat on the table because of the guides, bring it right to the edge of the table having the guides off the edge so the flat is flush with the table.  (Tony Spezio)

Take a 1-by board and drill a hole(s) for the guide(s) to hang down into. Then the section of rod will be supported while sanding the flats. I don't use steel wool, because I'll probably take toooo much off of the corners. But, I do use a shop vac to remove  sanding dust. (David Dziadosz)

A good idea. The only problem I see is having to make boards for the different guide spacing. I will give it a go.

As far as removing too much from the corners, I take that into consideration when using the steel wool. I try putting pressure in the center of the wool on the flat. For the fine tips, I just use a very small piece of wool. It is just a knack of doing it that works for me. I have tried fine sandpaper, it just loads up too fast. I also find that I have to break the edge on the corners just a bit to keep the varnish from running off.  Will see you at the SRG I hope, we can talk more about this.  (Tony Spezio)

All you need is a board about 9" long and one hole about 4" away from one end and a short piece to support the free end of the rod section. Then, just move it around. I  use sandpaper, 1000-2000 grit(s), on a wedge cut from a 3/4" board about 3" long. I cut the paper in strips, 3/4" X 5 1/2", fold it over the wedge and clamp it with a 3/4" black paper clip. It's really light and the paper doesn't load up as fast. I usually hold the section in my left hand and sand with my right without any support. It works pretty good, because you can tilt the section and see the light reflect off of the parts that had not been touched with the sandpaper.  (David Dziadosz)

What is everyone using to rub out the finishes in their rods?  (Doug Hall)

I sand bumps with 2000 grit wet/dry used wet then polish that out with Perfect It and Finesse-It made by 3M, available at auto paint suppliers.  (John Channer)

I've been using Finesse-It II from 3M for rubbing out my finishes, and it works pretty good, both on spar and polyurethane.  (Mark Wendt)

Well, unless  I want to  buy a quart (smallest size available locally) of Finesse-It II for $30 plus I need an alternative polishing compound to finish my rod with. Suggestions?  (Wayne Kifer)

I've been using Meguires Scratch-X.  Seems to work OK for me.  (Neil Savage)

I found 3M Rubbing compound at the local Napa auto parts store. Part #03900, 8 ozs for less than $10 (I think). Labeled as "clear coat safe". A lifetime supply for you and me at our rate of production.

I use this as a final polish. It leaves a surface nearly as shiny as fresh dipped without any further treatment.  Matter of fact, I am not sure you could tell the difference between a surface polished with it and an unpolished fresh varnish.

Also, I remember Harry Boyd mentioning once that he found Finesse It (not labeled as such) in the boat supplies section at Walmart. Was labeled for removing scratches in fiberglass boat surfaces. They logically would carry it in Coos Bay. I believe he said it was in a small bottle and also selling for less than $10.  (Steve Shelton)

Just another tip, for what it's worth -

I go out to my local upholsterer and he gives me offcuts of upholstery leather, as close to natural in color as I can get, and I cut myself wooden blocks of hardwood about 2 1/2" X 1" X 1", and I glue precut pieces of  the leather to the blocks, ROUGH SIDE OUT, and these blocks are what I use to apply all my polishing brews.  They cost nothing, are easily replaceable and work well, and especially they help to preserve the sharp angles of the hexagon.

Earlier, when I am preparing the blank for dipping, (and I dip before I apply the guides as it makes polishing so much easier and more effective, for me anyway)  my final "soup" for smoothing and prepping the blank is to polish it down with a slurry of Tung Oil and Rottenstone (we call it Tripoli over here), and it is these wooden blocks that I use  there as well. I just label the blocks so they always get used for the same compound, and they last for ages.

I glue the leather on with Loctite 409.  (Peter McKean)

Spend the $, it will last a long time and it works very well for a final polishing before wax.  (Frank Paul)

I agree. I have tried a lot of things. This one seems to be the best. I haven't found anything that even comes close. Also, use the felt pads you can get from Brownells in the gun shop. The pads come in hard, medium and soft. The hard ones are the ones to use.  (Timothy Troester)

The 3M product may be the best but if you live in a remote area of the  world where such products are hard to find (such as I do) there are alternatives that work well.

The best I have found is a 3 stage antique car polish called California  Gold. It does a very good job and may well be based on the 3M product.  (Ian Kearney)

I finally finished my dip station and dipped my first rod.

The tip section was done first and is great.  the butt section has one bubble, one very slight sag and if you look really carefully some micro bubbles.  I used Varmor thinned 8% with Penetrol and heated the varnish to approximately 85 degrees.  It's been about 18 hours.

since my usual source is unavailable I'll ask the questions here.

How long should I wait until trying to rectify these problems. (can says 6 hours to recoat and to scuff between coats.)

How aggressive and which method for each (1000 grit versus 0000 wool)?

Any help would be appreciated.  (Ralph Tuttle)

I'd say wait longer than 6 hours, more like 48 hours.  Sandpaper on a block will give a flatter, nicer finish than just scuffing with steel wool.  I use 600 grit between the first two coats, and 800 between coats two and three.  (Harry Boyd)

I touch up my varnish (if need be)  between coats with the 3M superabrasive polishing paper (cloth backed), and an oblong pencil eraser as a sanding block. This lets you work the flat nicely without cutting all the way through the varnish on the edges. I find the cloth vastly superior to steel wool or normal wet and dry. It picks up most of the sanded residue as you go. Just wipe/brush the rest off. Bailey Woods at CSE sells this in packs of 9 sheets (3 x 3 of 9, 15 and 30 micron). Note, it is also great for ferrule fitting.

For big chunks/drips, use the 30 micron. For little dust nibs, use the 15. After the final coat, use either, followed by the 9 and then car detailing "Swirl remover" on a rag, and you can bring up any final imperfections to a nice finish.  (Nick Taransky)

This is a request for info from any one who polish finishes (i.e. cuts back the finish then use's a polishing compound to finish off the rod.

I've got a 6'6" 3 wt that's ready to go and I thought I'd have a go at polishing the thing.

The plan is to let the varnish fully cure then cut back with teak oil and rotten stone then polish with? (need the name of a polishing compound that someone has used).

The vanish is poly urethane based.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.  (Luke Bannister)

For a compound I've used Meguires auto compound for light scratches. It seems to take the brightness off. Then  a couple of coats of Butchers Bowling Alley Wax. That gets done at the start of each season, then during when I'm bored and not fishing.  (Pete Van Schaack)

I normally use the rottenstone with a white oil (French polish lubricant) followed by a French polish restorer for a satin gloss.  For higher gloss the auto body polishes such as Meguires as already mentioned are the way to go, and a search through Google will find you UK suppliers and remember you get what you pay for.

You will probably have to experiment to see what best suits your varnish and preferred technique.  I tend to use leather for the coarse applications followed by cotton cloth and finishing with cotton wool.

Unless your original varnish finish is very good be prepared for quite a lot of rubbing and if you use too coarse a compound or too much elbow grease prepare for the unpleasant experience of breaking through to the cane just when you think you have got it licked.  (Gary Marshall)

3M, in an auto stores.  They make a couple of grades.  "Rubbing compound" cuts fast.  "Buffing compound" is finer. 

The last time I looked I found some under the Turtle wax trademark. 

There's also Jewelers rouge.  You can find it at some places that carry Dremel.  I'm sure you could get it at a Jewelers supply.  (Terry Kirkpatrick)

Crest toothpaste.

I could not find an easy supplier of any of the Meguires or 3M products and I remembered some body shops in my home town using it.  I used the coarse side of an offcut from a leather belt to apply it - it helped keep me rubbing parallel to the flats and preserver the corners.  (Greg Dawson)

Here is a site at which you may order 3m products and the product I use, 3m Finesse-It machine polish. This is the finest cut product I have been able to locate.  (Timothy Troester)

I have used the 3M products (Perfect It 1, Perfect It 2 and Finesse It) which are available from auto products suppliers.  You can do as I do and use them in series, or you can omit one or two depending on the final result you are after.

Just a tip;  it is not easy to maintain the sharp angles of the hexagon at this stage, and what I do is go to the upholsterer who gives me offcuts of upholstery leather.   I cut small blocks (5-6 cm X 3 cm X 3 cm approximately) and glue precut pieces of leather nap side out and mark on each which grade of compound it is to be used with.  They last a long time and when they do give out it is only the work of a few minutes to make up a new set.

Doing your polishing with these makes it a lot easier to keep your sharp angles.

If you are really a glitter fan and want to polish it beyond the Finesse-It I find it hard to better Meguires Clear Plastic Polish.   (Peter McKean)

Novus Plastic Polish (#2 Fine Scratch Remover).  Several sites on the web offer free samples.  (Ron Larsen)

Unlike spar which cures slowly urethane cures quickly and becomes very hard. I try to polish the rod before 24 hours with 3m's Perfect It. If I let the varnish dry for over 24 hours it gets so hard the polish doesn't touch it.  (Dave Norling)

How do you all cut the "brightness" of your finish.  Was casting a rod I recently finished and even from my lawn in New Jersey I was putting down fish in Wyoming.  (Louis DeVos)

I lightly knock off the sheen with 0000 steel wool and use  different grades of swirl remover to give a wonderful low luster.  (Adam Vigil)

I cut it back with Perfect It Extra cut, and then bring it back to the desired degree of shine with Perfect It II and with Finesse It.  I apply them using pieces of wood with leather glued rough side out to one surface.  (Peter McKean)

Toothpaste on a piece of leather belt.  (Greg Dawson)

I too have been wondering this. I just finished my first wood reel seat and didn't like the shiny poly finish. I rubbed it out with 4/0 steel wool to a matte finish and then polished it with pure carnuba wax. Did I do it right? This is also my first band reel seat as well and I want to know that this will hold up before I glue everything together.  (Barry Janzen)

Whatever suits you.  The amount of gloss to the finish is very much a personal thing.  One reason I like Tru-Oil, I can stop before it gets too glossy or go for a high gloss.  (Neil Savage)

If what you are looking for is matte finish, there are a couple of products. 3M builds a burnishing product, 4F Rottenstone, a car paint oxide remover or toothpaste [not the gel kind]. I use a piece of chamois about 2" square with water as a lubricant. Each finish responds differently. Varathane finishes can be done within 24 hours. Minwax Spar Urethane - best wait a week or 2. Spar varnishes are "softer" and require even more waiting time in my experience. Experience with your finish is the only way to know what works for you.  (Don Anderson)

Since it's so quiet I thought that I might ask for an easy spar polishing regiment.

I "pour finished" two tip sections and got the spar a little thick on the last coat.  (to the point that the rod is dang near round down by the tip top) It's dried for about a week and I was considering sanding it out with 1500 grit and then rubbing the scratches out with something like Meguire's car cleaner/wax. Anyone have an easier/better method.  (Bruce Johns)

I use a 3M product. "Finesse-It II" machine polish and I use Brownells felt pads.  I have used the soft, medium and hard pads and I think the hard one works best. I do not think there is anything finer than this product.

Before you use the Finesse-It you can run some fine sand paper down the flats with a hard block. The compound will rub out the marks.  (Timothy Troester)

Be sure the varnish has set up all the way before sanding the flats. You night know this but here goes. If the varnish is just dried on the surface and still not really set up all the way through, the varnish that is not set up will become sticky from the heat generated by sanding. This will cause the soft varnish to "ball" up and not be smooth. Just take it slow and check while sanding. It may not be a problem at all, just something to watch for. Some varnishes take longer to set up than others.  (Tony Spezio)

After the final coat of varnish is applied, allow the rod to cure for at least 10 days.  Then tackle the polishing process as follows:

Polish out the varnish first with Rottenstone mixed with Windsor & Newton Drying Linseed Oil (to a syrup-thick consistency), applied to a hard-felt block (available thru Brownells). Rub down each flat, this dulls and flattens the finish, and preserves the hex shape. Next, clean the blank with a damp paper towel.  Bring back a smooth gloss shine using 3M Imperial Hand Glaze (part # 39007), applied with a clean cotton cloth.  [An optional step is to repeat the polishing process with Meguiar's Clear Plastic Polish #10.]  Finally, using a clean cloth, apply a coat of 3M Perfect It Liquid Wax (part # 39026).  (Bernie Elser)

I tried something a little different last night maybe someone else has already thought of.

You know that orange waterless hand cleaner that you buy at Napa or Lowes? I was cleaning my hands with it, and noticed on the bottle label it says “pumice”. So… the light bulb went off in my head (albeit dimly) and I tried it on a True Oiled reel seat as a polish instead of the 3M finishing compound I normally use. It works excellent, and smells good too.

I might try thinning it  with a  little water and rubbing a blank with it. Not as messy as rottenstone or pumice, and not nearly as expensive as the 3M Perfect It or Finesse It.  (Tom Vagell)

“Orange” based cleaners can be pretty aggressive and may damage a finish.  Hand cleaners are among the mildest but I would suggest a test piece on each type of finish you might use it on before committing to the final part.  (Al Baldauski)

Also be very careful about the contact time.  The "orange" is actually d-limonene, which is a really good solvent, which is why it works so well cleaning greasy hands. The important thing about limonene is that a very little goes a long way - it can soften finishes fast. 

I had a conversation with the folks who distill it from citrus peels in FL. It is used as a paint/finish additive to promote smoothing out during application. Naturally, the light bulb lit up and I ended up with a pint sample, which I tried in place of Penetrol. Seemed to work a little better - and the shop smelled great !

Also, the grit size in my orange hand cleaner seems to be pretty coarse; very coarse compared to rubbing compounds.  (Carey Mitchell)

Ahaa, This might explain the Payne varnish odor! And the wonderful smooth brush finish.  (Doug Easton)

Has anyone used toothpaste for final rub-down after varnishing? (instead of rottenstone/linseed oil?).  If not, why not?  (Vince Brannick)

WE used to use tooth paste to polish out scratches on Plexiglas airplane windshields years ago, never tried in on rods. May have to give it a try.  (Tony Spezio)

It occurred to me that if it polishes enamel on teeth, why not? And shouldn't it be a lot easier to clean up? But there may be disadvantages ~ that's what I'm 'fishing' for.  (Vince Brannick)

I've read here and elsewhere that it works fine but have never used it. The reason I haven't used it is because my brother gave me a pint mason jar of 3M Finesse It and a pint of Perfect It from the the paint shop department where he works. They work great and I still have well over 1/2 pint of each left. Should last me for quite sometime.  (Will Price)

I have.  I could not locate any of the "usual" rubdown products commented on by members of the list for my first rod and then remembered that the auto-finish shops in my home town commented on using toothpaste (and products like "Brasso" and "Silvo") for cutting a finish.  It took the high gloss finish down to a very nice satin finish.  Off course, it smelled minty too.  I think I used Crest.  Not sure if the brand has any impact.  I used small pieces of leather (offcuts from a belt) as the polisher.  I squeezed a bit onto the back of the leather and polished away until I got the finish I wanted.  It did not take long at all.

I also managed to get some rottenstone from Lee Valley around the same time.  I varnished a piece of pine 1x6 and segmented it into a checkerboard - one strip untouched and one strip polished with the toothpaste or rottenstone etc. to give me an idea of the finish it would give me.  (Greg Dawson)