I wanted to pass on what is so far promising for me and see if anyone has an opinion on this type of homemade varnish. Yesterday I mixed up a concoction of 1/3 Interlux Original spar, 1/3 turpentine (pure stuff), and 1/3 pure Tung oil. I wiped it on the blanks and left them wet for 15-20 minutes before wiping clean with a dry lint free paper towel. So far, the finish looks hard and is far more dust free and streak free than I would have imagined. It also seems much thinner (better in my opinion) and less plastic-like than my usual PU dipping which I am unable to do with this cold snap. If this continues to be promising, I may use it a lot more, as I see it as very easy to execute with minimal set up and good results. It is easier for me to take a short break from cutting blanks to wipe on another coat than it is to go upstairs and dip.

What am I missing out on here guys? What is going to go wrong that I am just not seeing yet. Being a pretty strict Helmsman guy for 5 years going, this is pretty new to me. Next to using the Landmark impregnant from Hal Bacon, this seems as easy as it gets.  (Bob Maulucci)

I have used this sort of finish on a number of rods. The approach was taught to me by a professional cabinet maker. He felt that it was plenty durable and gave a  look that was "closer to the grain." He used about 4 coats but increased the varnish proportion and reduced the oil as the number of coats increased. The only problem I have had is that to do a nice smooth job you have to put the finish on before you wrap with the attendant difficulties of doing that.  (Doug Easton)

I've been messing around with making varnish and found this to be an excellent link for other tinkerers.  No financial interest, of course.  (Joe West)

These formulas make spirit varnishes (alcohol based) as opposed to oil varnishes.  Some, I realize, have been successful using shellac on rods; most of us use a drying-oil based varnish.  Has anyone been using spirit varnish and can comment on its resistance to weathering?  (Jim Utzerath)

BUT!!!  Take a look at the weird alchemists potions they sell for use with oil-based finishes.  I should have linked to this page instead:  scroll down and see some of the cool stuff.

I too would be interested in hearing if anyone else is using spirit varnishes.  (Joe West)

I've been using oil-based violin varnishes on wraps, following the "Golden Witch regimen" for the  more expensive Alchemist varnish.  Like the Alchemist varnishes, violin varnish contains no driers.  The procedure is:

1.  thin coat of violin varnish; rotate for 1-1.5 hours

2.  another thin coat of violin varnish; rotate for 3-4 hours

3.  coat of regular spar; rotate for 8 hours

Excellent penetration, especially for clear wraps.  I usually add a tad of extra driers to the spar for step 3.

For varnishing the entire rod, since driers are not present, I would think it would be difficult to use.  UV light is supposed to speed up the curing process, though.  (Rich Margiotta)

Do you have any recommendations for using Japan Drier? I have some, but have only added miniscule amounts to spar or walnut oil varnish for wraps. Is it useful, and how? Thanks,  (Bob Maulucci)

The stuff I use as a drier is called "siccativ" which is actually a generic name for driers, from International Violin.

I'm sure it's essentially the  same as Japan driers (lead/ cobalt mixture, I think).  I only add a few drops to about 10 ml of varnish.  I haven't done any tests, but I think it helps kick the violin varnish.  (Rich Margiotta)

If memory serves me, Chris Lucker makes copal varnish. I believe the ingredients are available at a well stocked art store.

Bob Nunley also posted a spirit varnish recipe in 2/2000 if anyone's interested.  (Mike Shay)

I have been doing a little chemistry in the shop lately, mixing small quantities of varnish and dyes. I have been looking for a source for small bottles and the like. Anyway, I found Specialty Bottle in an online search and it seems like a good source.  Anyone have experience with this company? I was going to order from American Science and Surplus, but there web site and literature focuses on humor more than it does on actual product details!  (Bob Maulucci)

Bob, I get all of my bottles at Consolidated Plastics.  (Dave LeClair)

When I need small bottles for varnish and lacquers, I just head to the camping section of the local Ace Hardware, they have bottles of all different sizes that hold up fine to solvents. I've had lacquer that I use for head cement for fly tying in the same bottle for going on 7 years now and it is the same as the day I bought it. I just wonder what I'm ever going to do with the rest of the quart of lacquer I will never use.  (John Channer)

Try your local health food store. Mine sells small colored bottles with either a plain cap or a dropper cap.  (Steve Weiss)

Have any of you ever messed around with mixing your own varnishes?  FOR FUN - Have been poring over a few late 1800's receipt books and some of  the formulas seem simple enough to try - Just got some litharge ordered and any recommendations as to proceed would be greatly appreciated?  Plan on using hot plate and doing this outside. I have a basic initial formula that is based off of an umbrella varnish formula with a few minor variations that should make it unique enough but as it was the chemistry part of pre-med that killed me,  I’m not sure but am thinking this linseed oil, turpentine lead oxide concoction might need UV to cure properly - does this make sense?  (Rob Smith)

What does the lead oxide do?

The turpentine is acting as a drier for the oil, its not an especially powerful drier, if it does react to UV there should be enough in daylight, but my various concoctions using copal or other oil based varnishes years ago dried perfectly well in a drying cabinet so crude it was a cardboard box. But dark inside, of course, it was heated by a sixty watt bulb.  (Robin Haywood)

Thanks for the feedback Robin.  Regarding the lead oxide not sure really but come across it in more than a few formulas especially those that would be most waterproof such as the umbrella varnish as well as pitch varnish for roofing - listed as Litharge -  so figured it must be somewhat essential.  Have you ever used poppy seed oil in combination?  (Rob Smith)

Litharge is a catalyst for the polymerization of the linseed oil. It (or something like it is essential). It forms a lead soap with the fatty acids of the linseed oil which then acts as a drier later on. It will throw a sediment which will settle after a week or two. You can then decant the clear varnish off and leave the gunge at the bottom of the bottle.

Three main issues about doing this at home-

Temperature control- you are working close to the auto ignition point of the oils, there is s big danger of the whole lot catching fire unless you have good control of the temperature.

Oxygen- If the oil is exposed to air (oxygen) when cooking, it will go dark. A little bit is probably OK in our use. If it is open to the air, the varnish nay well set up as a gel in an uncontrolled manner, as it will be 'drying' in the cooking pot.

Smell - I hope you have either no neighbors, or really understanding ones - it's pretty strong -

You don't need U.V to make a linseed varnish dry.  (David Kennedy)

Thank you for the especially insightful response.   What other catalysts could be used besides litharge? Are there any that would be UV driven? Can the Litharge or other element be pretreated in such away that it could be mixed with the other elements and used essentially right away?

Mixed findings here, exactly what temp does the mixture need to maintain during boiling period?  Are there recommended times?  Are you suggesting a pressure cooker for prep?

Regarding the odor - guess It will have to set up next to my smoker on the side of my "favorite" neighbor - guess that’s why there are so many perfumes added to some of the formulas.  Is there a best recommendation for adding or cutting with citrus?  (Rob Smith)

I think I read someplace when I was looking at doing this at one point for the fun of it you "boil" linseed not by boiling it as such but adding heated steel balls to an air tight vessel of it.

The more I read about it all the less I liked the idea of the whole thing but I'd love to know how you go with it all.  (Tony Young)

Here's a site with kinds of historical concoctions already made up, but expensive.  (Rich Margiotta)

Never even heard of poppy seed oil, except that all seeds contain some sort of oil. I was wondering if the lead oxide was there as an antioxidant. Someone will tell us!  (Robin Haywood)

I think the lead oxide is there to speed up the crosslinking (curing) of the varnish. Metals such as lead and cobalt are commonly used as "driers", AKA, "japan drier" and "siccative" in the trade.  (Rich Margiotta)

Here is what I could find about the use of white lead. Both it and yellow lead [litherage] dry oils but white lead ha an additional property

"White leads are chemically active pigments. They react with both the free acidic portions of vehicles and with the breakdown acids that develop from paint vehicles as paint films age. These reaction products … which are called lead soaps, reinforce the paint film. Fortunately these white lead reaction products are formed at a favorable (slow) rate that imparts the right type of plasticity to the paint film for good stabilization."

Also linseed oil makes the most durable oil base but when boiled with driers is darker than poppy seed oil.

This looks like black magic to me I think I'll stick with the comercial stuff.   (Doug Easton)

Isn't white lead highly toxic?  (Nick Kingston)

Only if you eat it!  (Carey Mitchell)

Yes, very toxic, particularly to children . I wouldn't mess with it. This is the reason for the lead paint removal issue in older homes. This doesn't apply just to  white paint. White lead was used as a drier in in most oil paint into the 50's &60's.  (Doug Easton)

Litharge is pure lead and when boiled with linseed or Walnut oil creates what is called black oil. Carbonate of lead contains moisture which is forced out by the heat. The lead fumes are poisonous and the oil becomes poisonous.

Lead is rusted and becomes white ( flake white). When burned again it becomes red oxide (used in painting barns). When fired again it has the look of a light gray, thus Litharge of silver, when fired again it becomes a soft yellow in color,(Litharge of gold). When Litharge of gold is mixed with one of the above oils and heated between 180 and 200 degrees centigrade the oil begins to smoke and turn brownish. The litharge at 150 degrees begins to  turn into scrap and sticks to the spatula. At 210 degrees the deposits soften and mixes with the oil. At 250 the lead is permanently suspended in the oil and the color is of clear brown coffee. It is the black oil developed during the 1400 century. I can't caution you enough about the danger of lead poisoning.

Look up The Secret Formulas of the Masters by Jacques Maroger/1948  (Richard Kevorkian)

I am surprised our friends that work on musical instruments have not chimed in on this topic.  Violin making is renowned for its varnish lore, and I suspect a lot of traditional recipes were intended for that purpose. I preface this by saying that I buy all my varnish but have spent several years in forums and workshops where folks do make their own. >There are oil varnishes and spirit varnishes; spirit varnishes are not suitable for things that will get wet but are easier to make. Of the oil varnishes, the only modern popular formulations that get routinely discussed are the Fulton (oxidized turpentine) and dissolved mastic with linseed oil.  Others appear to require high temperature conversion of resins and are dangerous to make and are most successful when done in large batches.  Even the Fulton process has a few precarious moments. Instrument varnishes are very flexible and transparent and expensive.  They are applied in very thin coats and do not dry well (occasionally not at all).  Dryers (Japan, cobalt, or drying oils) are not routinely used but UV drying cabinets are often used. There is certainly a lot of appeal to some of the ingredients (fossil resins and exotic gums and other things made by plants or insects).  For cane rods, I am quite happy with my favorite off-the-shelf products, though. (Jim Utzerath)

I'm sure it's fun to fool around with homemade varnishes and to study all those arcane ingredients (and it's always neat to be able to say that your recipe is unique). But makers shouldn't imagine that their homemade product is going to provide something in the way of durability, penetration, water-resistance or toughness (not to mention ease of application, reliable drying and a UV-resistant film) that isn't already available in our commercially available preparations.  (Bill Harms)

I've read a recipe for varnish in which a Frenchman boiled shrimp shells in oil. They boiled for a very long time at high temperatures, and then suddenly went dull, giving a pink hue to the varnish... Anybody wants this?? I can have a look if I find it somewhere...  (Geert Poorteman)

Well, I found what I was thinking of, but it is rated as a varnish for fly lines... He gives several recipes for  silk fly lines, and also the ones he makes himself.

Boiling linseed oil to more than 200°C on a hot plate and outside since it stinks!! Be careful because it can start burning spontaneously!! Add pulverized amber. Beat it up with a hammer and sieve it (if ever you can find any that is!! I have some on a necklace I bought for my wife in traditional Ethiopian beads. Another recipe based on Stradivarius (here we go with the violins) is to plunge shrimp shells in the boiling oil. They will stay supple and brightly colored for a long time, but then will turn into chalk, loosing their color and the oil will become pinkish. (Geert Poorteman)

A list member asked if there was a supplier of resins or other materials.  Thought it might be of general interest. The place most often cited in the Maestronet (pegbox) Forum was Kremer Pigmente.  I have not dealt with them but you can Google their catalogue.  Also International Violin has some stock; you can Google them too.  Sorry for the commercial.  (Jim Utzerath)