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Publications: Epi-Cure 3140 Information
The pot life is 2.5 hours at 25c which is about 77f, certainly an hr or more at 90f before it begins to even look like setting up. Shell does recommend heat setting and doing this will make it less likely to fail in elevated temps later on when the rod is being used. Take a look at the tech notes here. Look at the info for the 826 formula. Use vinegar straight from the bottle, you can also use methylated spirits which is called something like denatured?) alcohol?? Basically ethanol. (Tony Young) There you are! I use Epon 828 with a different Essence of Skunk hardener, and I find it prudent to mix the batches for the three sections independently, as I have trouble with their setting up too fast otherwise. It's not a lot of trouble, I just save all the empty fruit yogurt containers, bring home tongue depressors from the surgery for mixing, and each gluing day I open a dedicated 10ml syringe for the resin and another for the skunk juice; but if I try to get more than one section out of a mix, that is when I start to say things that I am likely to regret, and it is when I come close to getting glue lines. I spread the epoxy with a toothbrush ("The Toothbrush of the Ninth Happy Celestial Armpit", or something like that at any rate, bought for zip at the local bankruptcy traders) and if I attempt the second section I can just feel the the old Celestial start to load about half way through, and the glue ceases to spread. (Peter McKean) There are several different hardeners you can use with the resin, all have different properties. An example some on the list may know is the case of West System epoxy. The resin is the same but you can get at least three different hardeners, fast, medium and slow. About the only speed of resin you ever see here is the slow due to the ambient temp the glue will be used at. The stuff Bingham Archery sell is (unless they've changed it) Shell 826 with Versamid 140 hardener. I didn't look at all the specs on the link I included with my post but from memory the 826 has greater elongation potential compared with the 828 but I could be mistaken there without going to check again BUT the extra elongation isn't an issue for rods or probably even bows. I can't remember the details now but back in a previous life as a struggling boat builder trying to learn all I could about the wonders of laminating timber I sort of remember being told an excessively flexible glue would only cause laminate creep and that a glue like resorcinol which is not flexible at all actually creates the best bond you can get even though the laminates themselves are subjected to a lot of flexure. That's the reason masts and spars should be glued with Resorcinol and not epoxy though there are enough people doing it anyhow. Epoxy is a different sort of animal to "normal" glues but I do know the only time I ever had problems with any epoxy that was made up as per the manufacturer's directions and did harden correctly was when the batch I used was made more flexible than normal to be used as a paint base in marine use. The bond was very good but when the (nodeless) rods were used they failed at a rate of 100% at the scarfs. Very embarrassing and a real drag. I only mention this because I'm not suggesting anybody NEEDS to necessarily be using 826 to get the benefits of Epon formula but the hardener used will dictate the set up time. I must also add I'm certainly no expert on the use of the glue apart from having used it, like it a lot, have written and spoken to others on the list who use it and find it the best epoxy to use I've come across. (Tony Young) A few people contacted me about the message from the people at Epon who are very helpful I may just add so I placed the question in the following post. (Tony Young) I emailed Shell Chemical them and asked for some info straight from the horse's mouth as it were and this is what I got back from them: /********** Shell's reply to my questions **********/ Tony, There is no magic to elevated temperature curing. It is a simple fact that a chemical reaction speeds up with heat. For every 10C increase, the reaction rate doubles. What determines a cure schedule (ramp rate , temperature , dwell time, cool down rate, etc)is the application limitations. For instance, one must be concerned with over drying the bamboo, so time at temperatures near 100C should be minimized or eliminated from the schedule. The ramp rate is usually governed by the viscosity of the resin WHILE it is being heated. If the resin becomes too runny, it can run away from the joint before it gels. Often these variables are worked out by trial and error. Usually, a system like EPON 828 and Versamid 140 in your application is allow to gel at Room Temperature, (overnight) and then it is Post Cured at elevated temperatures. I suggest 150-180F for 2 hours - 4 hours. Cool down is no biggie. It should be even so to avoid warping the rod. Hope this helps. Gary Hunter /********* and so ends the lesson by Shell ) ********/ Hope that helps out. (Tony Young) You should have at least an hour of working time, you can extend the pot life by sitting the mixing container in a container of ice water. I wipe down the bound strips with straight vinegar, squeeze the rag out so it's not dripping, just wet. You can also throw the binding cord in some vinegar to wash it out after you finish binding. I use the Epon from Bingham. I don't use vinegar at all anymore. Had a bad experience with it soaking in the glue line when I spilled some on the bench. I was told no problem but I did have a delimitation. After glue up and binding, the sticks are hung up overnight 18-20 hours recommended. The string comes right off and a swipe of the razor blade on each flat, makes quick work of the residual glue, it is still in a soft state. It takes all of 15 minuets or less to clean a rod. Check the blank over and if there are any seams that are open or look like glue lines, bind that area real tight. Reason for doing this is it will close the gap during heat setting. Rebind the whole stick and heat set in a 180F oven for four hours. Remove, lay on a flat surface and let room cool. No hassle of sanding off string and hard glue. The sticks come out clean. The glue cleans up better with Denatured Alcohol than it does with white vinegar. The vinegar makes it turn white and messy. I use a couple of syringes I got from a veterinarian friend. Cleaned them real good with the Denatured Alcohol before using them. That is how I clean them when I am finished. It takes 10 cc of hardener to 20 cc of Epoxy for a 7'6" blank with two tips. No waste with a little left over. The glue is poured in the appropriate syringes, turn the syringe tip end up so that the air can be pushed out when the plunger is installed. Push out all but the glue needed. 10 cc and 20 cc. Squirt the Epoxy and the hardener in a glass container. I use an old Power Bait jar. Mix for several minutes. It will turn milky looking. Apply with a tooth brush. I don't use mine, I use the wife's tooth brush. You have a good 45 minutes to work with. If it is about 90 degrees in the room, it will start to get a little thick. After you apply the glue pass a hair dryer over the strips. This will thin the glue and make the strips seat better. Bind and hang. This works well for me. (Tony Spezio)
Sorry for all the questions, but I hate to make a mistake after all the work I done up to this point. (Bob Williams) Here is a link to the Epon/Epicure data sheet at the Versatics site, if you're interested click here. Although I used 1:1 for my first rod, and it seems OK, since reading the literature I have been using 2:1 828 to 3140 and then the last few rods doing a 200 degrees heat set for 2 hours after 14 - 16 hours at room temps, just because the properties show improvement in the spec sheet. Others may have more experience with the "need" to do the heat set. Looking at the left over epoxy after a few days, it sure looks like pretty tough stuff. For cleanup, I used to use white vinegar, but picked up a tip from someone on the list about using isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol, which I prefer mostly due not caring for the vinegar odor, and it seems to be a little more aggressive in cleaning up the uncured epoxy. I find the blank will stay workable for many hours - even up to 6 - 8 hours, so you can diddle to your heart's content with getting every little tiny bend, twist, and kink out, or if you are as adept as I am at such things, can put several back in for every one removed, providing for many hours of entertainment. [;-)] I usually mix up somewhere around 15 grams for a section using 10 grams 828 and 5 grams 3140, resulting in probably a little more than you'd need, but I'd rather have some left than wish I had. Just what works for me - I imagine other folks have their preferences. (Ralph MacKenzie) FWIW, off list someone suggested to me that denatured alcohol works even better than isopropyl, if you want to throw that in, too. (Ralph MacKenzie) I use Epon, take the string off after about 8-10 hours and do serious straightening without heat. Then heat-set for a couple of hours at about 150. The sections are then well cured. (Steve Weiss) I mix 2 Epon to 1 Hardener. Pass a hair dryer over the strips to get the glue to flow and thin out some. It is real thick when applied, bind the strips and roll and straighten as good as I can. Hang the sticks for 18 to 20 hours, Usually overnight. Remove the binding cord and scrape the residual glue off. It is still in a jell form. Comes off real easy. Rebind the sticks and heat set for 4 hours @ 180 degrees F. I do scrape the enamel off before I plane the finish taper. No hassle in sanding off cord and hard glue. Saves a lot of time. (Tony Spezio) My humble apologies! I have always thought that those of you who say that they have to sand off the binding string with Epon if you don't get it off quickly enough were probably exaggerating. I have been gluing with PU now for about 12 rods, and am currently finishing two Payne 101 wannabe's, so thought it would be a good opportunity to compare glues; yesterday I glued one with Epon, and hung it up in the drying cabinet. I hung up the second tip at 1645, ambient temperature about 25 Celsius. I have one 100 watt globe burning in the cabinet. Usually, with the Epon, I would pull off the string about 12 - 18 hours later, and not expect to have any trouble at all. Last night, for some reason that is not clear to me, I went down to check on the sections at about 2200, and they were firm and set, so I thought that I should probably take off the string a bit early. No way! Today I sanded the stuff off; I still think it's great glue, though you can smell it for bloody days, even through nitrile gloves and face masks, but that sanding is no fun at all! I am going to glue up the other clone with PU tomorrow, to see if there is any subjective difference in the blanks. I mean, I know that there WON'T be, but I'm going to do it anyway.... Anyone else have any experience like that with Epon (mixed 3:1)? (Peter McKean) With Epon wipe it down with a white vinegar on a cloth and let the section dry up. The string will unzipped easily. And sanding is almost a joke, that is to say, easy. (Adam Vigil) I have used Epon for 4 years now, on about 2 dozen rods, and I have never had to sand the thread off. I mix it 1-1, bind em up and hang em for 24 hours, more or less. In the summer I just hang them in my unheated shop, in the winter they come in the house and hang in the varnishing cabinet with the light on, about 95f. Sometimes I get impatient and heat cure one at 200 for 2 hours. The sanding part is most always the same, unless I attempt to sand too soon, in which case it just makes a gooey mess out of the sandpaper. I use cotton covered polyester thread for everything and it comes off fairly easy no matter how I've cured the glue, sometimes it can be a bit more trouble getting it off the heat cured sections, but not much.. I also just did a small experiment. I just glued up a rod the other day and thought I would try to find out just how much the Epon was adding to the dimension of the sections. I planed each strip to 1/2 the rod dimensions, measured very carefully all 3 directions at every station, then when I taped it together for glue up, I taped on either side of the station marks and remeasured the sections at each station. I wrote those numbers down and managed to avoid breaking my own arm patting myself on the back for doing such a fantastic planing job! After cleaning the sections yesterday, I remarked the 5" stations on them and remeasured and can report that, at 75 degrees F and 30% humidity in Durango ,CO, at an approximate altitude of 7,000 ft. above sea level, Epon seems to add a fairly consistent .004" at each station for the full length of the rod. FWIW (John Channer) My experience with Epon is similar to John's. If you take the string off within 24 hours, the glue will be "soft" and the string will come right off. If you wait a few days, or heat set the glue you will have a problem with the string, and the glue will be much harder to get off the blank. If you are working with soft glue, a cabinet scraper will do a much cleaner and quicker job of removing excess from the blank than sandpaper. If the glue is hard, the scraper will leave chatter marks, and you have no choice except to use files and sandpaper. If you want to heat set, it's easier to take the string and excess glue off after 12-24 hours, rebind, and then heat set. Since there seem to be several versions of Epon, it might be best to say that I am using Epon 828 with the V140 hardener. (Tom Smithwick) Actually, I don't usually have any trouble taking the thread off no matter how hard the glue is. The trick is the cotton covered polyester thread, glace cotton is weak as a kitten, polyester is much stronger (and not affected by normal heat treating btw). (John Channer) Resins may be stored at 120 degrees - 140 degrees F indefinitely, and are routinely shipped at 150 degrees - 180 degrees F, however, doing so will decrease the viscosity of the resin (not permanently), and will dramatically increase the cure rate. Post curing the resin only serves to accelerate the curing process, and in no way initiates any other chemical changes, such as cross linking, beyond what would normally take place. A common cure schedule is 24 hours @ 25 degrees C, then 100 degrees C for two hours. There are many permutations to be had within that time/temp range. Following a post cure regimen, say 16 hours @ 25 degrees C, then 100 degrees C for two hours, makes a dramatic difference in lap shear strength; not that there is not enough as it is for a bamboo rod. A complete cure schedule is 7 days @ 25 degrees C. For each ten degrees above 25 degrees C the cure rate doubles. The heat deflection temperature for 828/3140 is 115 degrees C (240 degrees F), for 828/3164 it is higher. Epicure 3164 imparts highly flexible properties, improved toughness compared to conventional polyamines (A type of curing agent. 3115, 3125, 3140, 3164 are all polyamines) Improved combinations of elongation, strength, modulus, abrasion resistance, and tear resistance in comparison with other "flexibilizing" curing agents. Epicure 3140 should be kept in a tightly closed container, in a cool, dry place. It is very hygroscopic, and readily absorbs moisture and carbon dioxide. This may affect viscosity, or create foaming when reacted with resins. Epicure 3164 is stable, though should be kept in a tightly closed container to prevent darkening. All epoxies are capable of producing adverse health effects ranging from minor skin irritation to serious systemic effects. Once systemically sensitized, always sensitized. Use appropriate precautions when dealing with any epoxy. Avoid any skin contamination, and the breathing of fumes. (Martin-Darrell) This thread on glues and more specifically Epon brings up a question that has been on my mind for some time. I've always used Epon and like it's properties a lot. My rods however always seem to turn out a bit stiffer than other makers rods of the same taper that were glued with URAC, resorcinol, Titebond or something else. Obviously the tapers could have been slightly different between rods, or heat treatment, but still I'm wondering if any of you have experimented with different glues on the same taper and if any difference was noticed. What impact on action does the glue have? (Winston Binney) Polyurethane glue makes the same taper stiffer than Titebond II. (Darryl Hayashida)
The stuff is just fine, Karl. (Martin-Darrell) Yes, that is the way to store it for up to 6 months. (George Bourke) Epoxy is pretty tolerant of temperature extremes, Epon especially. If it was only left there for a short time, I wouldn't worry about to much. You might have shortened the life of the epoxy by a day or two. (Mark Wendt)
If heat curing is required, has anyone built a heat curing oven using light bulbs, heat lamps, etc?? My heat treating oven is a heat gun rig that is not controllable at the low heat set levels. (Karl Hube) No you don't need to post cure. Just realize that it could take up to a week at room temperature for the Epon to cure fully (note - 25 degrees C is 77 degrees F). Here's what M-D posted a while back: Resins may be stored at 120 degrees - 140 degrees F indefinitely, and are routinely shipped at 150 degrees - 180 degrees F, however, doing so will decrease the viscosity of the resin (not permanently), and will dramatically increase the cure rate. Post curing the resin only serves to accelerate the curing process, and in no way initiates any other chemical changes, such as cross-linking, beyond what would normally take place. A common cure schedule is 24 hours @ 25 degrees C, then 100 degrees C for two hours. There are many permutations to be had within that time/temp range. Following a post cure regimen, say 16 hours @ 25 degrees C, then 100 degrees C for two hours, makes a dramatic difference in lap shear strength; not that there is not enough as it is for a bamboo rod. A complete cure schedule is 7 days @ 25 degrees C. For each ten degrees above 25 degrees C the cure rate doubles. The heat deflection temperature for 828/3140 is 115 degrees C (240 degrees F), for 828/3164 it is higher. Epicure 3164 imparts highly flexible properties, improved toughness compared to conventional polyamines (A type of curing agent. 3115, 3125, 3140, 3164 are all polyamines) Improved combinations of elongation, strength, modulus, abrasion resistance, and tear resistance in comparison with other "flexibilizing" curing agents. Epicure 3140 should be kept in a tightly closed container, in a cool, dry place. It is very hygroscopic, and readily absorbs moisture and carbon dioxide. This may affect viscosity, or create foaming when reacted with resins. Epicure 3164 is stable, though should be kept in a tightly closed container to prevent darkening. All epoxies are capable of producing adverse health effects ranging from minor skin irritation to serious systemic effects. Once systemically sensitized, always sensitized. Use appropriate precautions when dealing with any epoxy. Avoid any skin contamination, and the breathing of fumes. (Mark Wendt)
I mix 1/8 teaspoon of ammonium chloride in 5 cc of water, after I let it set for 20 minutes I add it to 50 grams of URAC which is adequate for any two tip rod. This is pretty much what I learned from George Maurer. A search of the archives should reveal some other mixing ratios that have worked for others. (Bob Williams) For my UF-109, I premix water with ammonium chloride crystals 20:1 by weight to make the catalyst. Then the glue is mixed 10:1 by weight with the catalyst. That gives me about 20 minutes working time. If you want to extend the working time, use less catalyst. (Ron Grantham) Most problems with the walnut shell powder mix involves the use of the Custom Pak CR585 resin & powder (Sold by Golden Witch, etc.). The powder mix that comes with this is quite course (Think sawdust) and unusable i.m.o. URAC 185 resin (From Nelsons) and the walnut shell catalyst is much finer (A true wood flour) and quite usable. In fact 185 mixed 4-1 (With powdered catalyst) is actually thinner consistency than 585 mixed with Ammonium Chloride and water. Nelson won't give a recommendation on straight Ammonium Chloride due to warranty claim concerns. However the walnut shell powder for URAC (NOT 585!) contains 13 percent Ammonium Chloride by weight. If you mix up 100 grams of resin you only need 1.3 grams (That’s a minimum) of straight Ammonium Chloride I always add extra (1.5 grams to 100 ) as a safety margin. There is no need to add any water with this (Again URAC only) it is plenty thin enough. One other note URAC, whether mixed with walnut shell powder or straight Ammonium Chloride has a much longer working time than CR585 (Though it takes a bit longer to cure than 585). Rodmakers seem to consider these 2 resins identical, which is true enough when cured, but they have different working properties. I find the 185 much more suitable for rodmaking( Longer shelf life, longer working time, thinner consistency, cheaper, better color). (Dave Kenney) Then again the VERY best is a liquid hardener and resin which is what I use. The only drawback with the stuff I use is as it's intended for use in industry where large amounts are used to make plywood and various beams etc. the shelf life is of secondary significance to strength and ease of spreading both of which are great. I get about 3-4 months satisfactory shelf life for rods. Much longer for use on timber. (Tony Young) I have used liquid catalysts (URAC, Resorcinol), and they work great. But "VERY best" is harder to quantify, and really depends on the situation. Remember the walnut shell powder gives gap filling abilities WITH Strength, unlike Urea's mixed with liquid or straight Ammonium Chloride or Titebond polyurethane glues which fill with little or no strength. This doesn't matter much for the average rod, but if you build larger rods (Salmon), and undercut your strips (Typical of a beveler, Morgan Hand Mill, etc.) this is something to think about. For general rodmaking it is great stuff though, URAC 185 (With a shelf life of at least a year) mixed with straight Ammonium Chloride (Shelf life of eternity) is a very close second. (Dave Kenney) The reason a liquid hardener is the very best is it mixes very well very easily, there can be no regions where the powder has not been mixed correctly as there is no powder and the hardener is mixed completely with minimal mixing as it's the consistency and color of water. This particular resin is also quite thick, ALMOST the same consistency as a thin epoxy, at least 3 times thicker than resorcinol, remember this is not indented as a handyman's glue, it's intended to be quickly and easily spread evenly which does require a certain thickness so it flows rather than runs. This is also a draw back as because it is intended for industrial use the shelf life is short but so what? It's so good I just consider it to be a cost of using it even though I have to buy a lot more than I'd prefer. Overall it's a very small part of the overall rod and if I get a few made inside it's shelf life it amortizes the price to the point it's the same as buying a smaller amount of handyman UF that is not as good. Certainly a lot cheaper than buying and flying out a tin of URAC for example. I can't comment on how thick it is compared to URAC but it must be thicker judging on your comment re gap filling and the usefulness of the walnut shell. To thicken this UF I use any more would be detrimental. To test this stuff I use a couple of sticks of American White Oak about 1" x 1/2" x 12" glued end for end laminated at the last 2 inches. Unless I have some already planed it's normally just rough sawn, I do that because that ensures the worst possible lamination having gaps and a bad bonding surface. I figure if it sticks to that it's good. I allow to cure then break the lamentation. If I see ANY glue line at all at the break I stop using that batch of glue. The reason I use AWO is it's not an especially good wood to laminate in some ways, it's OK but not the best but it is strong wood. The fact the wood will give way before the glue does is a good indication of the glue strength which I would rate as much stronger than the wood. The only other glue I'd put at that high esteem is resorcinol which is not gap filling and may not bond as well under the same test conditions due to bad surface preparation. Epoxy is also strong of course but I prefer UF for the action of the rod it gives and I use a lot of glue for other purposes so having more than enough UF laying about all the time is not a bad thing. I don't have any PU glue here at all for eg. Actually I'd much prefer resorcinol for everything, it's great glue but it's not gap filling and the lines cause some concern on rods sometimes so it's easier if I just use UF. Funny thing is around boats the resorcinol lines inspire confidence. One problem with epoxy is it doesn't like bonding to thick laminates. Epoxy looks fine but sooner or later if it's stressed it can come unstuck. Thinner laminates are no problem. Sometimes I bond thick laminates. You can't have laminates too thick on a rod of course. As UF requires very little hardener to kick it you can alter the set up rate depending on the temp thought as with all resins the less hardener you can use without affecting it's strength the better. Don't try that with epoxy. Always mix it following the instructions. This UF I use would fill the most gappy undercut made with a mill, beveler or pocket knife blank you could imagine. I've never done a "scientific" test on the glue to try this out but this UF seems to require the tiniest amount of hardener to set. I generally use it with a 1:30 ratio which has a pot life of around 25 minutes at 20c, hard in about 60 minutes and full cure 24 hours but when the glue is no longer good for rods and I get a new 4 liter container (smallest qty I can buy) I have to get rid of the old glue. I don't pour it down the drain so I add a very small amount of hardener, no more than 5 ml into maybe 1.5 liters of resin. In a couple of days the resin in the container is rock hard. I had a funny thing happen when I asked the techs about this glue after I found it stopped being so good after a few months when the previous batch went for about 9 months. I got a tech who told me the EPA and Work Safe laws made them drop the amount of urea used in the glue, the replacement is as good as far as bonding goes but it reduces the shelf life. We were cut off and I called back and got a different tech who told me the amount of formaldehyde has been reduced due to EPA and Work Safe laws the replacement is as good as far as bonding goes but it reduces the shelf life. I asked why his mate just told me the same thing about the urea and he told me both have been reduced, both replacement ingredients work as well but reduce the shelf life. He read me the before and after list of chemicals with the weights used. He was telling the truth so I asked just what is in it why the hell it's still called UF? Interesting thing he told me is these new laws began in the US and if I ever tried any from there to make sure I fly it out because it'll be out of date before it got here otherwise. That jibes with what I read in Wooden Boat some time back now that downgraded the danger of using UF from quite high in confined spaces to just slightly dangerous. The article was vague as to why this change and inferred it was due to better understanding of the effects but it seems it's more the formula *may* have altered for a lot of brands. (Tony Young) Mixing with Urea's (Liquid or powder catalyst) is rarely a problem. Epoxies however can be very sensitive. Again the liquid catalyst is excellent, but not always the "best" under all applications. Glues mixed consistency and its gap filling properties are not one and the same. IE; polyurethane glues can be thin but will have good gap filling properties, hide glue is generally thinner than some yellow glues but is better at gap filling. None of these however have the gap filling abilities of URAC mixed with the powdered catalyst (It was designed for such applications) Again not always important but it is something to consider. Personally, I use URAC 185 with straight Ammonium Chloride for trout rods, and the powdered catalyst for larger rods, because all of my rods are done on bevelers, with a slight undercut (From 60.5 to 61.5 degrees) (Dave Kenney) Note: Resorcinol, URAC 185, CR585, Perkins L100, Cascamite, etc, are not "Handyman glues." Least not in the USA. Most people have never heard of them. The point I was making was the UF I use is made and packaged specifically for industrial use. Mixing the glue and gap filling is indeed not the same, the glue I use which is a liquid as is the hardener is already thick. Almost as thick as a thin epoxy. It's got some melamine in it and is made thick as thick glue fills gaps and spreads easier than thin glue which runs. As the hardener is a liquid it does mix easily. It's actually designed to be injected into a nozzle of the glue spreader as it's applied to ply wood and cabinet laminates. Being a liquid it takes minimal mixing to ensure proper mix before application which is required as it's being injected and mixed milliseconds before application. It's difficult to imagine this glue I use being made thicker without it being too thick for an application where the glue line would be too wide and therefore weak or have so much squeeze to reduce the glue line without that squeeze out being excessive to the point of over 50% waste when used on rods. Some squeeze out is not just nice but necessary but excessive squeeze out is wasteful and not especially desirable. If this glue was thickened any more than it already is it would be difficult to use for rods unless you want to fill hollow built rods for some reason. The glues packaged in small quantities are normally considered as handyman glues by the makers even if most people have never heard of them. They tend to have properties that allow for increased shelf life because they sit in a shop (somewhere) until it's bought and are not usually as good in use as industrial glues as this is made to be sold in drums and used quickly. Some industrial glues are indeed packaged for handyman use but it would be interesting to find out if they really are the same as what industrial users buy. For eg is the resorcinol sold in small packages also the same as beam makers use? There is a brand called Selleys which is carried by 99% of all hardware stores here. They package handyman size resorcinol and UF glues so it is something you can just wonder into any hardware store and buy out here. The UF is called Selleys 308. It's a powder resin/melamine added to make it bond better to slick surfaces as well as increasing it's bond in general, a liquid catalyst and you add water to the whole lot when you mix. That is done to reduce the package size. This is also a rather thick, creamy glue in application. Once the package is opened however the addition of the melamine makes it's shelf life very short so it's best used up all at once. However it is industrial strength glue. The resorcinol is true resorcinol glue but has a small proportion of cheaper phenol bulking out the glue so they can use less resorcinol. The phenol also increases the shelf life. It is also strong but not as strong as true industrial resorcinol. The shelf life of these glues is quite long provided you don't open the packaging but the glues are different to industrial stuff. Having spoken to the techs about these things I'm pretty sure that is the case with most if not all glue makers. So what we have is a bit more complicated than just UF and resorcinol. There is: UF which is the cheapest to make but quite strong and water resistant. Melamine formaldehyde which is very strong and water resistant and is also called UF with melamine or just UF. Phenol Formaldehyde also called resorcinol which probably isn't seen very often as it requires reasonably high temps and perfect laminations. It's cheaper than true resorcinol so workshops set up for it use it. Resorcinol which itself comes in three types. The best is resorcinol and formaldehyde, it's also the most expensive. Next is resorcinol and formaldehyde with some phenol replacing some of the resorcinol and this is what most handyman packs have. The last is resorcinol and formaldehyde with quite a lot of phenol replacing resorcinol and is the cheapest handyman pack. It's not as strong as the other two and requires higher temps to work as well as extended clamping pressure and time. I buy all of my UF and Resorcinol from the manufacturers in bulk. Neither glues will last as long as the handyman packaged glue but both are much better in use. The UF lasts about 3-4 months and the resorcinol goes for about 18 months. Now I sit and wonder why I'm writing this it's occurred to me the original question was what can be done about glues that aren't quite what is required. I suggest people do what I did and look for a glue maker who either sells direct or to a cabinet maker prepared to sell a small amount. IMHO the stuff available in small quantities is sold too expensively for what it is. (Tony Young) When I used URAC I mixed 4 parts liquid to 1 part powder. It works very well. Sam Carlson, one of history's finest rodmakers tried the ammonia Chloride solution one time, didn't like the results and went back to the walnut powder. Every rod he made was with the walnut powder. (Marty DeSapio) Garrison recommended sifting the walnut powder. I mix four parts liquid to 1 part powder. I sift the walnut powder, just to be safe. Though I've never had a problem. I use an old tablespoon stolen from the kitchen drawer. I level off the powder to equal 1 level tablespoon. Then, I add 4 tablespoons of liquid (allowing enough time to for the excess to bleed away from the spoon ‹ I mix it quickly, spread it on the splines and get to the binder as soon as possible. Working time is about 20 minutes. NO glue lines and NO problems. It works for me. (Joe Loverti)
Rod # 2 - day 3
Rod # 3 - day 4
What I found out:
Use Coats & Clark cotton covered polyester Button Carpet and Crafts thread and you can just wipe the sections down well with white vinegar, straighten, then hang them up until the glue is cured and heat set, if you do that, and the thread will just pull right off, I have never had to sand the string off along with the glue in 35 rods or more that I've used Epon on. Just like anything else, there's a learning curve involved. (John Channer) Nelson Paint now has a Canadian plant located in Sault Ste Marie. You can buy quarts or gallons of URAC 185. (Ted Knott) From my experience the binding cord is being removed too soon. After binding, the sticks are wiped down with denatured alcohol and hung for 18 to 20 hours. I have left them for over 24 hours when I could not get to them, no problem. By then the Epon turns to a thick gel and is not messy to deal with. The string comes right off and the gel is scraped off with a couple passes if a single edge razor blade, it is still soft. The sticks are then rebound and heat set @ 180F for four hours. The only mess is when first applying the Epon. I have done over 50 rods this way and am totally satisfied with the results. I have to admit, I don't like the smell. (Tony Spezio) Started out and have used nothing but Epon on the advice of Bill Fink. He suggested letting the glued blank cure about a week. I was in a bit of a hurry on the last rod for Christmas and took it out of bindings after three days and all went well. Sounds like Tony's drying cabinet would speed things up as well. I'm still hand binding and things get pretty gooey but I just keep a shop cloth soaked in vinegar water and wipe excess fairly frequently. Also wipe the blank down after binding and haven't had any problems with binding string coming off. Just a slight film and some string fuzz that comes right off with removal of enamel. (Darrol Groth) Rather than hanging in the heated drying cabinet you might try keeping the freshly glued sections in the warmth of your house for 8-20 hours. Then remove string, rebind, and heat set. (Harry Boyd) I use Epon too, and I leave the binding cord on for up to 24 hours, even in a drying cabinet. Even after 24 hours in my drying cabinet, it's easy to get the string off, and the Epon is almost rubbery when I scrape it off. How warm is your drying cabinet? (Mark Wendt) I just tried some Melurac 450 (URAC like, but a melamine glue), and I am very impressed with the results. I know you have a nice oven, so you will have no problem with the heat cure. I have two gallons of Epon resin and curing agent in the shop, but I just do not like the stuff. It is messy and the blanks feel slightly softer to me. Now that the Melurac gives me an infinite open time and water clean up, I see no reason not to use it instead of Epon or the usual CR-591. Shelf life is a lot longer to. You should check it out. I think it is a good URAC alternative. (Bob Maulucci) Where did you get it and how much is it. The glue that is. (Don Anderson) I got some from list member Michel Lajoie. It was about $7 a pound. Mix 6:1 with water and cure for 20+ minutes at 250 degrees. John Z recommended going 25-30 minutes. I have bound 5 rods with it and it seems very nice. Stiff blanks and water clean up. The string peels off and there is almost no sanding afterwards. (Bob Maulucci) What does it do to the rod dimensions? I found URAC to make the sections around .010 fatter, Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue the same and Epon only increases my dimensions by around .004. (John Channer) I have not cut the sections to length, but so far it seems that the glue is minimal. I know that flat to flat is darn good, but I have not cut to length and checked the actual stations yet. The thing I like most regarding this glue, is that the minimal residue means that I am not wailing away at the blank with a sanding block. I think that in the past many great rods were made just rather good by over sanding after glue up. I think that is one of the biggest factors in good tolerances. I have been using Kevlar thread so it just pops right off. I will check tomorrow and post the findings. I should reiterate that I have glued up 5 rods with this glue (on two occasions). After sanding, the sections flex and feel nice. They look good with a rubbed in coat of varnish, no glue lines that are extreme. I have not fished or cast a section glued up with them nor do I know what the rods will be like in one year. I could be the next Gillum (regarding glue failure not talent, he was a genius!). Also, I bound the wet strips into MD's fixtures for curing and they are really straight as an arrow, no lies. You are welcome to check them out. (Bob Maulucci) Michel also sent me a sample of the Melurac and I have glued up one rod and must say, I am quite impressed. Since I build mostly blonde rods it is great because it dries a nice straw color. (Robert Cristant) My experience with Epon is the same as yours. I leave mine overnight in my drying cabinet at 80 degrees and after 12 hours it is well set. The only negative side is the stuff is messy to work with. I have never been able to leave a rod for more then 12 hours and have the stuff easy to scrape off. I rub the blank down with vinegar after binding and that helps with the cord removal. I do spend some time sanding off the glue that remains. My problems seem more binder related then glue related. The sales department at Epon told me they guarantee the stuff for one year and it has a shelf life of at least three years. Last year when I talked to them they told me six months with only a one year shelf life. I've had mine for almost two years and it's still good. She told me that the way to tell if its gone bad is when the Epon changes color. (Mark Dyba) What color does it change to? Does the amber get darker, and the clear turn amber? I've got a batch that's about 1 1/2 years old and still working well. Epon also seems to store much better than most epoxies in different temperature ranges. (Mark Wendt) You're right on the colors. The amber turns darker and the hardener loses it's transparent look. About a three year life if kept in a cool place. (Mark Dyba) I've been using my Epon since 1997, with no apparent problems, and at that time I was told that it had a very long shelf life if kept in a cool dry place. Maybe next week I'll call Miller-Stephenson and ask them about shelf life and how one can tell if the product is too old to use. I always test it by gluing pieces of bamboo together and then trying to tear them apart after they dry. You know one spends a hell of a lot of time getting a rod ready to find out that the glue is no good after binding would be quite a disappointment. Does anyone else use Epon that is more than a couple of years old? (Jack Follweiler) I've been using the same Epon for over 5 years and have not had any problems. Bill Fink (the Epon guru) has some that I think is much older than that. (David Rinker) This is all very interesting. I've used Epon on all of the rods I've made and it is hard after sitting all night. Temperature is 75 degrees F nominal. I wipe off excess with either acetone or vinegar after binding, final straightening and hang. Next morning the binding can be pulled off unbroken. At this point, the Epon is hard. I rebind and heat treat. (Onis Cogburn) The Epon has partially cured in my case. It's not gooey, but a tad rubbery, and the residue scrapes off rather easily. I do the same. Pull off the old binding cord, scrape, rebind, then heat cure in my oven at 100 degrees C for two hours. (Mark Wendt) I suspect that the rapid setting of the Epon 828 + 3140 curing agent has to do with the temperature of the drying cabinet. I use a 1/2 of 3140 to 1 of 828 by weight as per technical bulletin. Measured on a balance beam scale. The stuff is readily cleaned up with vinegar as suggested. I learned that it takes a lot more attention to clean than URAC. The last rod glued went fine. String removed readily, glue cleaned easy, rebound no problem. Just have to learn the ins and outs of the stuff. Figuring out the tensioner took a while. Have to machine another this afternoon. The drive belt was my fault. Been using the same belt for about 5 years. Took a licking and finally gave up. Ted, thanks for the heads up on Nelson Paint. If I return to URAC, I'll give them a shout. The handler on the west coast disappeared a year ago. Got some URAC resin from a furniture manufacturer. It went hard over the summer. Hence the voyage into Epon. (Don Anderson)
Shelf Life: I've made three purchases , the first in the sixties, a second in the eighties and my new batch, about three years old. I still have the curing agent from all three buys, and there is no detectable color change. I still have resin samples from the last two buys and the older batch is cloudy and more viscous. But the older resin comes clear and less viscous (easily pourable) after an hour or so on an electric warming tray. I still use it but not on rod laminations, though I would if I were pushed. Buildup: In my working specs for rods I allow .004 buildup in the butt, .003 in the mids and .002 for tips, based on experience with my own processing. Others might get different results. Cleanup: Uncured Epon cleans up just fine with ordinary soap and water for hands and tools. I've never seen the need for vinegar or alcohol wipe downs. When gluing up a rod, I make a small puddle of Epon and keep it near the curing rod. When the puddle is hard, the rod is ready to go on. I bind with waxed nylon cord which is a snap to unwind. I remove the residual Epon with a cabinet scraper, again a very simple operation. Can't imagine why anyone would need to remove the binding cord before the cure is complete. I cure at room temperature, and I've never seen the need to run the second heat cycle. And no one has ever commented that my rods are slow performers, to my knowledge. (Bill Fink) What I want to do is to tell you how much I appreciate your willingness to share your many years of rodmaking experience with all rodmakers. I knew that you were the first to use Epon but I didn't know it was forty years ago when I was still in high school. I started using Epon about 7 years ago and I'm still working on my first buy. I've also had identical results as to buildup with about .002 in the tips and about .004 in the butts. Thanks again for making rodmaking much more enjoyable for a lot of us rodmakers who are using Epon. (Jim Bureau) Thanks a bunch for your Epon comments. I have heard the "Epon yields a slower rod" talk for sometime and I guess I just don't get it. In order for a rod to be less stiff, it seems like there would have to be some shear in the glue and if this happens, wouldn't we see stress cracks in the varnish -- much like the cracks that sometimes occur in the ferrule wraps?? (David Van Burgel) Or maybe the dried out glue it heavier... (Geert Poorteman) I think it has more to do with the weight of epoxy, the way epoxy bonds with the fibers, and the elasticity formulated into epoxy. (Dave Kenney) In my earlier days I experimented with ratios, particularly since the Shell Tech Literature mentioned, If I recall rightly, some stiffness benefits for leaner (Less 3140 curing agent) but I noticed no difference so have used only 1:1 ratio by volume. I fix a piece of tape lengthwise up a pill bottle (have plenty of them) and mark off the target levels, so as to make a graduate. But I must say that in all the many ways I've used it, some with ratio not well controlled, Epon mix has never failed to cure. I have a saucer in which I frequently mix small quantities of Epon by eyeball. No problems so far. Nomenclature: I believe that Epon Resin and Epon Curing Agents are generic terms encompassing many formulations. The only ones I can speak of are the combination of 828 resin and 3140 curing agent. And, yes, I do roll my glued-up sections on newspaper which does remove a lot of excess Epon mix. Maybe this helps to minimize glue on the cane. Also, cabinet scrapers work well for removing excesses, perhaps better than sandpaper which may round corners. (Bill Fink) I called Miller-Stephenson this morning to talk to a technical rep about the shelf life of Epon. The tech said there was no set shelf life and that some people have been using the Epon 828 Resin and the 3140 Curing agent for years with huge success. The tech said that the life of 3140 was indefinite however the 828 starts to go it will start to smell like ammonia, but if tested, by gluing pieces of scrap bamboo with success, it will still be OK to use. Looks like the Epon can be used for many years just like you and I have found. Also I use 2 parts of resin to 1 part of curing agent with great success. Do whatever works the best or "to each his own." (Jack Follweiler)
Heat set it in your oven. 180 degrees F for four hours. Scrap the blank and rebind before you do and it will come out clean. (Tony Spezio)
I've been using Shell Epon 828 resin and 3140 cure for the last 7 years and have had no problem. The information I got to do the glue up of my rods either came from Bill Fink, the rodmaker who to my knowledge was the first rodmaker to ever use Epon for bamboo rods, or the chemist at Miller-Stephenson, the manufacture of Epon. The mixing ratio for Epon is one to one and not two to one. Epon requires no heat setting in an oven and will be fully cured in about 7-8 days at 70 degrees F. If you followed these simple guidelines it would be highly unlikely that you'd ever have a problem with Epon. I did get additional information from the chemist about using Epon. Epon can be heat set in an oven and will fully cure in either one or two hours (can't remember) at about 175 degrees F. Never exceed 212 degrees F. temperature when heat setting or using Epon. Epon can be easily thinned when it seems to be getting thicker in it's bottle, and can be done so by putting the bottle in warm water until it seems to flow like it did originally. My own Epon seemed to thicken up after about 4-5 years. For myself, I glue up my rod and let it sit for a day before I take off the binding string. I then do final straightening. What I don't do is over flex the rod and create so much stress in it that I could create trouble due to the fact that the Epon hasn't fully cured for the 7 days. If you're looking for suggestions, I'd follow these guidelines and keep it simple. (Jim Bureau) If you guys would just use Nyatex, this thread would never have occurred. Let me sing praises of Nyatex: It won't really set for days, but will set in two hours at 235 F. You can take your time binding, let it sit for 24 hours, then nick off the string. Then heat treat. I don't even rebind for the heat treatment, and have never had a failure, ever. I figure that any epoxy that can take that temperature will never fail inside a car on a hot day, and you don't have to worry about applying heat when straightening. It has a long shelf life- mine is now about 4 years old, and still looks good (although I am about to order a new can for the next rod marathon). The cleanup is a bit more difficult because quite a bit sticks to the cane after string removal, but you can at least get rid of the string... About the only thing to remember is to not flex the rod for 24 hours after finishing the heat treatment. I had one nodeless splice fail that way, but after cooling all the others were rock solid. I can not figure out why it isn't the most popular adhesive! (Jeff Schaeffer) I bought my Epon from Bingham Projects and it did come in different size bottles 2 to 1. And the instructions from them were to mix 2 to 1 and heat cure for 4 hours at 180 degrees. In the Archives Tony Spezio said that he had a bad experience with vinegar and no longer uses it. Believe me I will not use vinegar next time and I will not heat set and will mix 1 to 1. This is the third butt I have made for this rod. (David Ray) I have been using the Bingham Archery stuff for quite a while. Please go cautiously. I always mix 2:1 and I always heat treat. I have seen the glue still tacky after several days of mixing. I suppose it will cure at room temp, but why waste a month or so when a couple of hours will do it. I follow directions of Bingham and have no troubles. (Ralph Moon) I use Epon 1:1 by volume based on a lister's response from a few years ago. This was before I inherited a fairly accurate 3-beam balance. But I still use it 1:1 by volume. I do not heat set. I still wipe with vinegar, but I'm not as liberal with the vinegar on the cloth as I used to be. I just kinda wave the cloth over the jug of vinegar. I've never had a problem with the Epon failing. (Eric Koehler) My bad experience with the vinegar was when I spilled about a half quart of it on some strips that I had spread the glue on. I was concerned about using them. What I finally did was wipe the strips clean with Denatured Alcohol. I found that the alcohol removed the glue a lot better than the vinegar did and left the strips clean. I quit using alcohol and started cleaning the Epon with the alcohol. I do heat set 4 hours @ 180 F. I have mentioned this a number of times, before I heat set, the glued up strips are hung for 18 to 24 hours. The Epon is still soft and can be removed real easy. All it takes is a couple of passes with a single edge razor blade after the binding string is removed. The binding string will just peel right off. I also do any tweaking over a heat gun if any has to be done. The sticks are re bound a bit tighter than I do for glue up. They are placed in the oven to heat set. When they come out of heat set, there will be a little spot of hard glue here and there along the glued up seams. They are removed by scraping or sanding. No fuss with sanding off hard glue. The only disadvantage that I can see is the time that the glued sticks are hanging. I usually glue up in the afternoon and the strips are ready to heat set the next day. Did you make a mistake in saying you will not heat set. If not, why will you not do it. Have I missed a post. (Tony Spezio) Just a little point of clarification about Epon. You can heat-set if you like (I always do), but you will not bring about a better cure than if you allowed the glue to cure slowly on its own. The heat only speeds up the process, but it is not necessary. The bond strength will be the same either way. (Bill Harms) IT may have become obvious by now, but the Epon formula from Bingham is not the same as the one Jim Bureau, I, and many others use. I believe the Bingham is Epon 826 and a Versamid catalyst, not the 828 and Epicure 3140. Follow the instructions you got with the glue, disregard heresy. If I were you, I would be talking to Bingham about it, as they distribute the glue and should know it's quirks. (John Channer) I just looked up the definitive data on the Resolution Performance Products web site (this is the actual manufacturer not the distributor). When using Epon 828 and Epicure 3140 you can mix anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 by weight and get acceptable results. The downside is that if you use a formulation rich in hardener (1:1) Your mechanical properties suffer: 2:1 (Epon:Epicure) 1:1 Your choice! (Al Baldauski) I want to thank everyone for their comments and suggestions. I have been thinking about this a lot and with the comments let me say that I may have found the problem but I want your opinion. The mids which were hollow and closed on each end and tips which were not hollowed and they did fine, no problem that I can see. The only problem was with the butt sections that were hollow but the end was open, to be plugged later. I used a hair dryer blowing across the blanks at the proper 180 degree temp, as suggested by Bingham. The hair dryer was blowing into the inside of the butts, the hole was facing the hair dryer. Could the force of the hair dryer blowing into the cane cause the glue to fail by getting it too hot? That is the only difference I can see in the other blanks that did not have a hole in he cane. Could this be the problem? (David Ray) The clue may be in my last post. If you mixed at 1:1 then the heat deflection temperature, that temp at which the epoxy significantly softens and looses most of it strength, would be 72 C (161 F). When you heated your sections to 180 F (82 C) you exceeded the softening point of the glue. If you weren't bound tightly or not at all, then the residual stresses from node straightening and binding may have caused your strips to partially separate, especially at the butt end where you'll have the thickest cross-sections and the most residual stress. (Al Baldauski) I re-planed the quad strips. Very easy on a MHM one pass and ready to glue. Just sanded the two halves of the hex that split into. Used Epon again and put it out in the sun. First two days of sun we have had in months. This morning it seems to be rock hard. If I lived in Louisiana close to Harry no way it would have gotten too hot again. I do believe the problem was opened end hollow rod with too much heat although my thermometer said it was around 175. I want to thank everyone again for their help. I learned that to ask about Epon is to invoke strong opinions, often conflicting. It almost seems to be fighting words. People use different formulas of Epon, both seem to work very well. But the main thing I learned was that Epon is very heat sensitive not like Titebond but also not like Nyatex. I called Nyatex it seems now for about the same price you get half as much, Quarts to pints for $40. They said that Nyatex is good to 500 degrees or more, i.e. your rod will be toast before the glue fails. They also said that the heat setting is not necessary, it only speeds the process. They also said that higher temps in heat setting does not give you a better joint, heat setting at 150 degrees is just as good as 350 degrees. The problem I had with Nyatex was it bubbling when I heat set. I thought the higher the heat the better, as I found out not so. If I heat set at a lower temp I will not have the bubbling problem. As in most things bamboo, what glue you use is apples and oranges, it is what you like best. I knew Epon was an excellent glue I just wanted to find out why mine failed. I knew it had to be me. I must admit I do like the higher temps of Nyatex but to be honest great rods have been made from Elmer’s white glue on up. (David Ray)
Last time I ordered Epon, I got it from here. They supply materials and adhesives to the bow makers. Don't remember off the top of my head which resin/hardener combo they sent me, I can find out tonight when I get home, but it's a 2:1 mix ratio. (Mark Wendt) I get mine at Bingham also. It's Versamid 140 and Epon 826. No complaints at all with this stuff! (Mike Givney) Please see below the toll free # for Miller-Stephenson, the original source for Epon and the various curing agents. I have always used Epon 828/Epicure 3140 on a 1:1 ratio on the advice of Bill Fink, who started this whole thing. I just use about 3/4 disposable teaspoon of each per rod - no complicated measuring 'system'. I've never had any troubles straightening at any time and just clean up with plain water as Bill has explained a few times. A couple years ago one could get 4 oz. samples from them free for the price of postage. Quarts of each were ~$25 but last year some one mentioned that they were now selling it in pints. One caveat - since M-S is an industrial wholesaler, you have to provide them with a "Company" name such as Fubar Rod Co. or the like - then - no problems. Their toll free # is: 1-800-992-2424. Ask for Lynne, if she's still there, very nice lady and may even help you think up a name. I've had my bottles going on 3 years now with no sign of self deterioration. I join George in, once again, thanking Bill for his discovery. As usual, no financial interest - my uncle's company is doing quite well without my help. :^) (Darrol Groth) You're right in regard to Lynne. Pretty much my conversation with her went: Lynne: Your company's name? I think I have more then I'll need in a lifetime from them, but I understand Epon has a fairly long shelf life. I keep it under the bathroom sink instead of out in the shop where the weather varies so much. (Tim Wilhelm)
Although I have yet to finish my first rod (but I do have my culms from Golden Witch and have been practicing on Garden Center cane) I have had a bit of experience with epoxy (not Epon). The West system stuff I have used in boat repair has lasted over 2 1/2 years for me with no problem. Same for the Flex-Coat rod wrap finish (good for 4 years just needed an extra day or two to cure) and glue that I have used on rods made from the stuff that is unmentionable in present company. I keep the stuff in the refrigerator where the butter dish used to go. This also reduces your cholesterol as a side benefit. Could be that keeping it in the freezer may be better but I don't know about that. (Joe Hudock) I've had my quarts from Miller-Stephenson for 3 years now with no change in consistency or performance. I just keep them on the shelf with most of the air squeezed out. I put some in smaller containers with more air for a while but they thickened in several months and I threw them out. Though it may reduce cholesterol, I'm afraid Epon is not the lubricant Bill F. once touted it to be. (Darrol Groth) It doesn't need to be kept "cold". There is a difference in Epicure 3140 and 3164. One of them, I'll say 3140, but don't quote me, is hygroscopic. It needs to be kept tightly sealed. Both of them will darken if exposed to light for a long period of time. Epon 826 and 828 will both crystallize to some extent when cold. They can be reconstituted by warming. Bill Fink posted back in Feb of 2004. He stated that he still has some of all three of the batches he has purchased over the last 40 years. A search of the archives should turn that post up. M-D did a whole series on Epon back in 2000, I suspect a search would turn up that thread as well. (Larry Blan) Shelf life is seemingly forever, I store mine on the floor under my wrapping/tying desk in the spare bedroom. Hot in summer, cold in winter. When the stuff is too thick to pour out of the bottle, heat it up a bit and it will come back to life good as new. (John Channer) My jug of Epon 826 resin lives out in the shop. It's probably been frozen a few times, but not too many, and is hard as a rock. Each time I need to use it, I have to heat it back to liquid. I usually heat it back to liquid a few days before I plan to glue a rod with it. I talked with the Tech folks at Shell and they said that is no problem. One | |||
