I dress the feet of the Snake Brand guides to a little less steep slope. I wrap down the foot rather than up, and the shallower slope help keep things nice and tight. Next time I get ready to order some Snake Brand guides, I'm thinking of asking Mike McCoy to make up a special batch just the way I like them.

To grind the slope, I use a Dremel tool with a fiberglass reinforced cutoff wheel, running at 30,000 rpm's. Yes, I know that's fast. And yes, you can mess things up in a hurry. Then again, I can do a bag of 100 guides in about 30 minutes. I hold the guides in a small pin vice to keep my fingers a little farther from the spinning wheel. One of the big advantages of the Snake Brand guides is that the feet are all very close to the same length, so no shortening is necessary.

After using the Dremel to establish the slope, I run the underside of each guide over a small diamond hone for a pass or two to get rid of any burrs. Then I use a Cratex cone mounted on a mandrel in the lathe, turning about 100 rpm's to polish the guide slick as a whistle. Yes, it is a little bit like ironing your underwear. Chances are no one will ever see it, but I would know it's there. And poor guides and wraps are the most common flaw turning aesthetically good rods into mediocre rods, in my opinion. My wrap finishing still has lots of room for improvement, I admit.

Since I only use bronze guides these days, I then touch a Brown Sharpie or Pantone Marker to the places where I have removed the color. After the marker dries for half an hour, I give it another coat. Even under clear wraps, the feet show no evidence of grinding.

Just my way.  (Harry Boyd)

I dress my guides down with a 1" white aluminum oxide wheel that is mounted on a 1/8" shaft. I pick up the stones for 89 cents at the local "General Store" here in town. I chuck the shaft in my three jaw chuck attached to the lathe and run about 300 rpm. The low speed allows for more control for me and does not seem to "burn" the feet as bad as at a higher speed. The low speed also is gentler on my finger if I happen to get them in the way.

Remember to wear your safety glasses. (Brad Love)

I have run across one interesting method for dressing guide feet. A rubber Cratex wheel with a half-round groove filed into it. The top of the guide foot is placed into the groove, it shapes the foot as you taper it, works quite well. About the only secret is choosing the correct texture of wheel, not to hard, not to soft. I see no reason why it would not work with a mounted alum oxide wheel, either.

Don't recall where I came across this. (Larry Blan) 

I have done my research on stripping guides, and I am still confused. I checked the archives, tips page, OEM web sites, etc., and I am still unable to figure this out... what type of stripping guide should I use?

I understand that agate/agatines are traditional and absolutely beautiful, and the Mildrum tungsten carbide rings look nice and seem to fit the bamboo style, but what about all the others? SIC, Hialoy, Ceramic, Titanium, Carbide, Hardloy, Alconite... Wouldn't one of these other styles be an acceptable alternative to the agate/agatine or Mildrum style... List, please weight in! I know I will hear that it only matters what I like, but I really want to know what others do and why.

I am sure some of you have read some of Charles Brooks works. He was only interested in the function of the rod, and could care less about the looks. He made his rods from glass blanks and used spinning rod guides for the strippers! I probably fall somewhere between this and the strict traditional view. (Kyle Druey)

You guessed correctly. In the end what matters is your preferences. All any of us can do is share our own preferences with you.  I like the way agates look, but they are pretty delicate. Since I intend my rods to be fished more than looked at, I only offer agates as an option. I've had a couple broken, and replaced them with the heavier metal guides.

Many of the Carboloy-Mildrum type guides look clunky to me. REC sells several different styles, and the one I like best has the lightest wire of them all. That's my personal favorite. I use size 8 on 2-4 weights., size 10 on 5-6 weights., and size 12 on anything larger. Though I haven't actually put these lightest style guides on the scale, I suspect that they weight 40%-60% less than the heavier Mildrum guides.

I'm constantly amazed how heavy the metals we use on bamboo rods are. Sitting beside me right now are a couple of Payne 101 blanks, one with and one without ferrules. The weight difference is astounding. There simply must be something lighter than NS tubes that would do the job as well. In the same way, those Mildrum-look guides are HEAVY. A $2 Fuji guide would weight about 1/8th what they do. Guess I ought to use Fuji guides, and reel seats too, if I'm all that concerned about it. But I've got a lot of traditionalist in me. Besides, a bamboo rod with a Fuji reel seat would never sell. So I'll keep using the lighter all-metal stripping guides REC sells. (Harry Boyd)

Mildrum made a variety of carboloy guides in different weights. The Mildrum SRMC is a good light stripper guide. The fly line shoots well and they are almost indestructible. The TiCH strippers from Golden Witch look good and work well. The agate/agatine guides were not used by the majority of makers. The agatine ones are a good deal tougher. A trap that many makers fall into in the early part of the learning curve is to use the fanciest and/or most expensive findings on their rods, I think in a attempt to make the 'clothes make the man' kind of thing. Use decent stuff that is not overpriced and is geared toward performance. This applies to guides, reel seats, cork, rod tubes. It unfortunately does not extend to ferrules as of yet as the aluminum or brass ferrules are not acceptable and compromise too much in reliability. Try to get past the '20 rod hump' and finish the first 100. The components are not what makes a rod worth a damn.

As far as tradition goes, you would have to define whose tradition you are talking about. You can be comfortable at the Granger or Heddon level, about the same as the Leonard and better than the Garrison, not as good as the Payne.  (AJ Thramer)

I like Agate/Agatine, Tungsten Carbide and Chromed SS casting rod guides on Bamboo. Anything else belongs on graphite. All in 7 mm - 10 mm (especially for Agate/Agatine) for any size rod. There is no need to go larger. I believe the size of the stripping guide plays very little importance on distance casting. Smaller guides look better on Bamboo. Now of course this is just my opinion! (Marty DeSapio)

Well, the key word here is "acceptable." They will all work (ie., function) equally well, although I'm told that the ceramic insert type has the toughest ring. That said, one has to wonder just how durable a ring needs to be for an ordinary flyrod.

If you are double-hauling on a regular basis, using the same rod repeatedly, and frequently playing large steelhead, then I suppose the question would be relevant. Otherwise, the issue of durability seems a bit on the silly side, as all the stripping guides you mention are just fine. Moreover, because you are a builder, if a particular stripping guide doesn't perform as you might have hoped, you can always replace it.

Perhaps a more important question ought to be one of ring size rather than ring composition. If you shoot line (whether hauling or not), then a ring size of 10 mm or larger seems preferable. I would say that the scale (or proportion) of the guide to the size of the rod would be important too, but that's an issue of aesthetics. And, as you don't seem to mind much what type of guide you use, the question of scale might not matter to you either.

So, although you didn't want to hear this, you might as well simply follow your personal preference. For myself, I guess I'm a bit of a "traditionalist," so, thanks to a lot of great assistance from Tom Ausfeld, I am soon going to be making my own agate guides. (Bill Harms)

Sorry, but I'm going to give you much of the same, use what you want. After all, its your rod!

FWIW, I use agate, because I like the looks. I make them myself, because I'm insane. (Tom Ausfeld)

You may not be looking for this answer , but it really does boil down to what you personally like in a striper for your bamboo rod. Every stripper in the world will probably work on the rod, so you're confronted with the decision of what you want the rod to look and function like. For me, I want my rods to look traditional. All of the traditional strippers, be they agate, or a Mildrum, or whatever, should work great. I'd never consider a single foot ceramic stripper guide on any bamboo rod I'll ever build, no matter how good they may function but others may feel different. Maybe a better question to pose to yourself is, why wouldn't I use a traditional stripper on a bamboo rod. It's the same reason I use silk for my wraps. Not that it's better, but it's traditional, and yes I can tell the difference from silk and nylon, contrary to what Milward thinks. I'd also think that 90 percent of the rest of us could also! (Jim Bureau)

What' the reliability/longevity of using a nickel silver (18%) ring in the stripper guide?? (Tom Ausfeld)

I had a 1930's vintage rod that had an all NS stripping guide. The rod had seen a lot of use and there was line wear evident in the guide... a wide, shallow groove pointing toward the line hand. Dropping a greased silk line in fine sand a few times would probably cut this deeply. (Reed Curry)

So, you're saying that after 70 years of fishing, a shallow groove?? That seems pretty good to me. (Tom Ausfeld)

I'm just narrating an experience. I can't say that the rod had 70 years of fishing (it might have rested in a closet for forty years) but that it was from the '30s and had been fished hard at some time. Given that it hailed from the silk line period, I am attributing the wear to the silk line and its propensity to pick up abrasive particles when improperly used. PVC lines are considerably softer, are not greased, and thus are less likely to wear guides (I can't believe I'm saying this). I, personally, would not use NS stripper guides on any but a trout rod. (Reed Curry)

The life of the NS stripper ring can be measures in minutes with a shooting head system. (AJ Thramer)

Nickel Silver wouldn't last very long without grooving. It isn't hard enough. (Dave LeClair)

I'm building my first rod and would like to know how many and what size guides i should use. The Rod is a Dickerson 7012, that's a delicate 7' 4 wt in which I'll be in pursuit of heavy trout using small dries and maybe a small wooley in a pinch. (Mark Pohl)

I like my guides on the small size. I'd use 3 size 1/0's, 2 size 1's, 2 size 2's plus a stripping guide and a tiptop. (Harry Boyd)

Hmmm, I like guides even smaller on light rods.

2 -- 2/0, 2 -- 1/0, 2 -- 1, 1 -- 2, Stripper  - or - 3 -- 2/0, 2 -- 1/0, 1 -- 1, 1 -- 2, Stripper.

It depends upon the taper used. (Martin-Darrell)

How durable are agate & agatine strippers? (Mark Pohl)

They hold up just fine until you drop the rod and the stripper hits something hard, then they immediately turn into the best line shedder there ever was. I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would put one on a rod they intended to fish. I have one customer at the moment who insists on having me put an agate stripper on his rod , I told him that he would not only have to buy the first one, but also the next one and the one after that and........(John Channer)

The chances of dropping a rod and cracking the agate are minimal. I just picked up a 1920's 7 1/2' FE Thomas that needs a complete redo from years of fishing (wraps just disintegrate) but the original agate guide is perfect. If you like agate use it! (Marty DeSapio)

Being a newcomer to rodbuilding (one so far), I've been led to believe that agate was the "only" way to go for stripping guides on bamboo rods. Please enlighten me (and other lurkers) as to some alternative substitutes. (Kevin Erk)

There are lots of other alternatives. Most any unbraced casting guide will do fine. Anglers Workshop and REC both have Mildrum guides, I believe Anglers also has some Mildrum SRMC's left, they have a finer ring and weigh less than the standard Mildrum, many of the rodbuilding suppliers have the same type of casting guides made by both Perfection and Pacific Bay. My personal stripper du jour is the Pac Bay 8 mm casting guide in the titanium carbide finish, it turns a very nice black when varnished over. BUT!!!!!!!!, all this is a very personal kinda thing, you use whatever you find that turns you on, far be it for me to say what is right or wrong, I only know what I like and what makes sense to me. (John Channer)

Mildrum stripper guides. There are several types from which to choose. (Martin-Darrell)

You have been led to believe by purveyors of the agate guides no doubt. Most rods were built with a casting type of stripping guide anyway. If there is a choice between agate or 'agatine' , take the agatine as they are more durable. The PacBay TiCh guides look good and work well and have the added benefit of being reasonably priced. The Mildrum SRMC carboloy guides are a top notch strip guide. The PacBay ones are a bit heavy and the frames are too high for my taste but they function well. Chromed boat guides are correct for a rod that will have chrome guides. On light rods I have used the Pac Bay TiCh unbraced spinning guide in 8 mm and they work well. I have noticed that most beginner rodmakers seem to NEED an agate guide for some reason. (AJ Thramer)

I've used agatine extensively, and have taken some really photogenic spills in places like 11 Mile and Cheeseman canyons on the South Platte. Haven't broken a guide yet. (Now I'm jinxed and will probably blow one out putting it in the tube!)

I think they are great, but on the small size. (Brian Creek)

All I can say is, something breaks the darn things. I've refinished approximately 2 dozen old rods with agate or agatine guides and all but one was broken. The chance is there and likely, why take it? Maybe I fall down more than most, I usually fish the San Juan, which is slicker than snot (here's a tip for any first time visitors to the Juan, DON'T step on flat rocks under water, stay on the cobbles!), I've managed to break 2 tips there in 6 years, have dropped my rod several times in the mountains scrambling around in the brush trying to work my way upstream and have bent more than one snake guide in the process. Hey, you guys use what you want, I'll stick to PacBay TiCh casting guides for my strippers, I know they can take whatever I can dish out. JMHO (John Channer)

My experience with hundreds of vintage rods with agate/agatine guides is there very durable, it's a very rare case they need more then a good cleaning. Nothing dress a rod like top end hardware, so if aesthetics are important to you a agate stripper is very nice.

The Mildrums are probably more durable in the long run and 25% the cost of agate, on a hard fishing rod they probably are more practical since...

On a side note you can get Mildrum Guides at Rick's Rods at 20% to 30% off everyone else price out there and they have all the styles...(Dave Collyer)

I must bow to experience, the few dozen old things I have seen pale in comparison to the numbers that have passed thru your hands. I must just have the misfortune to get all the ones whose agate guides haven't faired so well. I still think they are a complete waste of time and money, but to each his own. (John Channer)

I've fly fished for 60+ years and I've never cracked an agate guide - of course I probably will the next time out. I've also seen many old rods with agate guides where the only undamaged thing was the agate stripper - so if you don't mind the cost, use 'em,  (Hank Woolman)

I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the black finish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most of it came off when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleeds into the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? (Dennis Aebersold)

If you have a darkening agent such as the Payne blue, or brass black, try that. I've found you can heat the ends of the feet red hot over an alcohol lamp, it'll darken the metal and remove the sheen too. Or use only dark silk colors! (Rob Hoffhines)

Rob has the right idea. If you can get some cold blue solution, Brownell's 44-40 or Oxpho-Blue, Birchwood-Casey, etc., that should do the trick well enough to give you a dark surface, IF you have removed the chrome, which you probably have if you've filed them, BUT if you've accidentally removed only the black, then you have a problem.

Spend the bucks and buy Snake Brand guides. You shouldn't have to file them but on rare occasion, and then not much. (Martin-Darrell)

Do any wiping with alcohol before you use the magic marker on them. Varnish won't make the marker bleed into the wraps, the solvents varnish has in it won't dissolve the solvent in the marker. (John Channer)

Why not file them on the bottom side, the side that will be against the cane? Then you won't have to blacken them. (Dick Fuhrman)

Easier solution, just use Snake Brand guides. The feet are dressed before the guides are plated and you don't have to dress them. I'm a Snake Brand addict, and will use NOTHING else! (Bob Nunley)

I had the same problem a few years ago after dressing the black guides, then using a permanent marker to reblacken the feet and yes they did bleed thru the wraps when I applied the spar...

Quick fix: Scribble black permanent marker in a small area on a small metal paint lid, apply clear lacquer with a touch-up brush to the permanent marker area. Apply to the dressed area on the feet, makes a nice translucent black that dries quick and spar will not touch it...

You could just use black lacquer paint, but the clear has many other uses in finishing out a rod and is handy to have around. You can get small 1 oz bottles of lacquer at your local hobby shop for a few bucks. Remember: you can put oil based over lacquer, but never put lacquer over oil based...

I agree the Snake Brand are very nice and easy and worth the money, but sometimes you have to work with what you got. (Dave Collyer)

Acrylic artists paint thinned down a little with water. You get it at almost any craft store for a buck or so a bottle in any color. Probably won't work well with water based Color Preserver (ugh); other solvent systems including epoxy don't seem to affect it.

You can also try to match the color of the blank. I've done it with green graphite. (Jim Utzerath)

I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the black finish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most of it came off when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleeds into the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? Please??? (Dennis Aebersold)

Acrylic artists paint thinned down a little with water. You get it at almost any craft store for a buck or so a bottle in any color. Probably won't work well with water based CP (ugh); other solvent systems including epoxy don't seem to affect it.

You can also try to match the color of the blank. I've done it with green graphite. (Jim Utzerath)

Thought I'd try wrapping with a translucent tan and really liked it, except for the fact that the guide feet had just been filed off down to bare metal and when the varnish was applied to the thread you could see the bright metal feet through the translucent thread. That part really looked bad. So, I took the wraps off and painted the guide feet with a magic marker and rewrapped and varnished. I need some suggestions on what to color the feet black with that won't bleed through the varnish like "permanent black magic marker" did. (Don Greife)

If you're using Snake Brand guides, you can blacken them with Brass Black, or probably any other bluing agent. (John Channer)

After I have filed the feet of my guides I stick them all to a strip of masking tape. Then, with a Q-Tip slightly wetted in bluing solution, I dab each foot. This seems to work well for me, but you need to be careful not to apply so much bluing that liquid is left standing on the metal. Wipe the "wetness" away with the corner of a paper towel, and if need be, redo with a less moist application.

Before mounting the guides on the cane blank, burnish the dried bluing a little by "scuffing" across the feet with a paper towel. This all goes very quickly and is virtually trouble-free. (Bill Harms)

I'm finishing a rod and as part of the ritual, took it out to "test fish" it. It hadn't cast quite as I'd hoped and I couldn't understand what was wrong.

As I fished I noticed that the rod seemed out of balance. I found I was holding on real tight to the grip. It wanted to twist to the right. 

Any guess what was wrong?

The guides were off by one flat. I wasn't casting on the spline!  Came home and moved the guides around to the next side and it worked a heck of a lot better. I'll try it out on the water next weekend. (Terry Kirkpatrick)

This rod was a pain in the ass from the very beginning.  I was making it for a friend, with no time limit so it got set aside several time.

The day I was going to test cast it was so humid that the masking tape didn't want to stick.  After I tape the guides on a rod I always string a line and put a bow in the rod, looking for places where the bow is extreme between guides. (I've found that the rod will cast better if I do this.)  After I check and adjust the guide placement I usually test cast the rod in my drive way.  This I did between rain squalls. 

When I checked the mid section later, the spline seemed to be between two flats, but the anti-spline seemed to be on a flat.  Usually I don't seem much of a spline in bamboo, unless I'm working with a rod that's got a fishing set or something.  This section looked. 

My guess is, when I taped the guides I was having so much trouble that I got off one flat at that point. 

I could tell the rod wasn't right, when I test cast it.  But it took me some time to figure out what was wrong. The way I finally figured it out was to hold the rod ABOVE the handle and cast it. I could feel the butt trying to turn under my hand, something I couldn't really feel on the grip..(Terry Kirkpatrick)

I still dress the "toes" on Snake Brand if I am making a new rod and using 3/0, it goes up the foot better is it is tapered more, no problem with them as is with 2/0. I use a point file. (John Channer)

I have run across one interesting method. A rubber Cratex wheel with a half-round groove filed into it. The top of the guide foot is placed into the groove, it shapes the foot as you taper it, works quite well. About the only secret is choosing the correct texture of wheel, not to hard, not to soft. I see no reason why it would not work with a mounted alum oxide wheel, either. Don't recall where I came across this. (Larry Blan)

My preferred method is to use Snake Brand guides. You don’t have to dress them they are right out of the package. (Dave Norling)

It was Carl O'Connor's idea to use the diamond wheel to make a groove to shape guide feet. (Ted Knott)

I suspect that I am guilty of undersizing guides rather than oversizing. For me the smaller guides look better although, with a plastic line, they may impede performance.

I've been making 4 and 5 weight rods and tend to start with a couple 1/0 guides at the tip with the last snake being a #3. The agate stripper, normally is a 9 mm.

I am curious as to how the rest of you approach how to select what size agates and guides you use. (Tim Wilhelm)

I just use what seems right to me! For me this is an 8 mm stripper/butt ring on rods say less than 7' and say 10 mm for rods between 7 and 8'6". (Paul Blakley)

That is as large as I use for rods up to seven weight, although I may use a #10 stripper on the six and seven weights. I typically use 2 to 2/0 on four weight rods. You may recall the performance of my rod that Troy Miller used for the first casting demos at the SRG, it seemed to perform OK.

Tom Morgan has the following on his Web page regarding their graphite rods:

One aspect of our rod design that makes them different from most other rods currently on the market is the snake guide size. If you compare our rods to others the guides seem small, and perhaps, too small to let the line pass through easily. The common misconception is that the bigger the guides the better the line flows through them and the farther you can cast. I have wrapped identical rods with small guides and large guides and found just the opposite to be true. Apparently, the larger guides allow the line to slap around the rod too much and actually they reduce the shooting ability of the line. Another aspect often overlooked, particularly on rods like ours with delicate and supple tips, is that the larger guides weight the tip of the rods excessively and entirely destroy their subtle action. Trust me, our guides are of adequate size and the smaller and lighter guides are one of the things that make our rods feel so great. (Bill Lamberson)

I agree with Tom on the snakes - no gain in oversizing and you can see the line following the blank better with smaller guides. On the stripper, I have definitely seen the opposite in action. I made identical 8013s except one had a size 10 Mildrum (about 8.5 MM inside ring) and one had a size 10 agate (about 4.5 MM inside ring) and the Mildrum rod totally destroys the other on shooting line and there are no negative aspects. The agate is coming off.

I'm not sure exactly where the crossover point is for strippers, but 4.5 MM inside is too small for a 5. (Jerry Madigan)

One thing the graphite guys have capably demonstrated is that guide placement is more important than is guide size. For all it matters, the smallest guides to be used on a rod could also be used for all of the guides, beginning right after the stripper guide. That is, an 8mm stripper followed by 2/0 for the entire cadre of guides. Of course, this looks odd, and I don’t think anyone would do it, nor would buy it, but . . . . Hard to believe, but a 2/0 has ample room through which a 9 wt. line to pass.

It really depends upon the taper and the rod type, but I'll predominantly use 2/0 - 2 with a 9 mm - 10.5 mm stripper for rods up to 5 wt, changing to 1/0 - 3 with a 10.5 mm - 12 mm stripper on 6 wt, and going up, again depending. Larger rods are another matter altogether. (Martin-Darrell)

Usually, size 8 mm stripper (i.d.) and snakes from 2 to 2/0. I don't make anything bigger than 8' 5 wts, at least not yet, and these sizes seem plenty big enough to me. I know Jim Freeman will jump my case about it, but I don't care for those 10 mm stripper that weigh an ounce per mm. (John Channer)

I do not believe you are undersizing your guides. What you describe sounds just fine to me. The only change I would want to make is one that seems not to be possible -- given the present availability of hardware. I would like to use a 10 mm agate ring mounted in a frame size meant for an 8 mm ring. To my eye, all presently available striper guides are much larger and clunkier than need be. We need the larger diameter ring, but certainly not that damn huge frame. (Bill Harms)

Quoting from the Cattanach bible he recommends one 0, two 1s, three 2s, and one 3 on 6-7' rods, then add additional 3s after that for longer rods. For strippers he uses Mildrums in #8 for 2-3 wt, #10 for 4-5 wt, and #12 for 6 wt. (Larry Puckett)

Dave Rinker talked about arbors and cups he uses for making agate stripper guides, does anyone have anymore info on "arbor and cups". And, pertaining to the same subject of making agate guides, being a second generation jeweler, I have tons, (well lots of pounds), of agate, onyx, obsidian etc. so I might as well put it to some use. I understand how to core out the agate, but am a bit confused on the method of bringing the ring down to the correct OD Dave says he does this on his lathe. Can anyone clear this up? (Mark Bolan)

What you need to do is fabricate a NS ring of the appropriate diameter and width, then "crimp or turn" on edge on a dapping block. Then, insert the stone, turn the open edge on the dapping block or crimp using methods or power tools used on any bezel. I'd solder the ring to the frame before I inserted the stone. Make sure that the NS for the ring is dead soft. (John Zimny)

I recently asked a similar question a few months ago and got mixed replies. I have got all the equipment to make the stripper guides but just haven't got around to it yet. From the research I have done from the archives/list the best way is to solder the NS strip, annealing it to make it soft, then use a bezeling tool to curl the NS around the agate ring. Dave Rinker has another way with two brass 1/2 cups in which you place the agate ring (with the NS around it) in the cup and tapping the two cups together to curl the NS around. ( this is how I interpret the instructions, could be wrong). Golden Witch has a secret way of doing it as well but you or I will never know.

As I have not tried either of these methods I can’t tell you which is best. Tom Ausfeld makes his own guides and is writing a how to for Power Fibers, but I don’t know when that will be published. (Andrew Chan)

Just a couple of insights on agate guides. I use two sized core drill to create the basic agate ring. I shape the ring with a diamond burr on the inside of the ring and just round off the outside with a diamond stone. The remaining polishing inside and out is done with wooden shaped arbors covered with diamond pastes. I create a mandrel the size of the bezel with a slot cut into it which I use to cut multiple bezels with pre made nickel silver bezel wire. I have a milling vise on the lathe that I mount the mandrels on. I slice them with my ferrule tab jeweler saw 2" in diameter. It eliminates the hassle of hand measuring each bezel. I use soft jeweler's solder on the bezel. The bezel is pressed into the stone and mounted carefully on a inside lapping tool, which happens to fit well. Carefully tighten I've cracked a few agates at this point. Mount the lapping tool in the lathe and press the bezel down with a U shaped bezel pusher. I buff out the bezel and solder with Stay Bright to a frame. The melting point is low enough to not fracture the agate. If the guide is left plain I just buff it and the solder is not a problem. If I blacken it I first electro less plate the guide with nickel and use a blackener from Caswells. I have a problem with then solder not blackening well and this easy plating method solves the problem. (David Rinker)

What is the guides You folks prefer? I've mostly used Pac Bay on my rods since they are easy to get here. I've also used some of Snake Brand, and are great. But what about the Perfection, they used to be the choice of the classic makers, or H&H from UK? (Danny Twang)

Snake Brand for me. I like the color of the bronze snakes, their shape, and the preparation of the feet. In occasional slight bending of a foot is the only preparation required before wrapping. The McCoy's are nice folks also. (Bill Lamberson)

Perfection guides are great, the most classic of shapes, but you can only get them in chrome now, not black anymore that I know of. I'll never use H&H again. I bought some of the black DLC guides @ 3.00 a pop and the DLC started chipping off the guides the first time I cast the rod. They did offer to replace them, but who wants to rewrap a rod you just spent hours finishing. I later found out found a friend who does high end plastic rods had the same problem with the H&H guides. (Mark Petrie)

I have tried all Guides even guides by Tom Moran, and I would say that Snake Brand and Tom Moran Guides are the best on the market. I do have Tom Moran guide sets and Snake Brand Guides for sale. If interested any purchasing any guides email me. I also have agate guides and Mildrum stripping guides. (Dave Henney)

I've used both the Pac Bay and the Snake brand. I like both of them better than H&H. The Pac Bay were their black finish and looked nice on a refurbished rod. They are made of a thicker wire than the Snake Brand and so they look a bit more like the originals. However, I think that the Snake Brand guides are the easiest to work with of any guide I've used. (Doug Easton)

How do I basically size the guides? For example: 2/0 next to the tip then progressively larger down to the stripper? 

A basic idea? (John Silveira)

Cattanach says:

One 0, two 1s, three 2s, and the rest 3s. For 2-3 wt rods he uses size 8 stripper, 4-5 wt rods size 10 stripper, 6 wt use size 12. (Larry Puckett)

If you are using Mildrum, Perfection or Pac Bay unbraced casting guide type stripper, the weight takes a quantum leap from size 8 to 10, the 10's seem like they weigh a pound apiece. (John Channer)

I've been using Snake Brand guides and tip tops but the tip tops seem to have a problem with the finish. Looks like it comes off a little after heating when installing with Ferrule-Tite and/or when protecting it with masking tape when dipping. Is anyone else experiencing the same problems and if so how are you dealing with it? (Tim Wilhelm)

The first time I heated a SB tip top to attach with Ferrule-Tite the black finish came off so I now install with epoxy and when I dip, I coat the tip top too so the finish will last. (Chad Wigham)

Hmm, so how does the finish last on the guides, I presume they are the same as the tip tops...? (Danny Twang)

The bronze finish on the guides holds up quite well, much more durable than the tiptops. I've been using the bronze guides for several years and have had no wear problems. Of course, to tell the whole truth, I only have two rods on hand with those guides, and both were made in 2002. All the other rods on which I've used Snake Brand Guides belong to new owners. (Harry Boyd)

The guides aren't coated. Have heard Snake Brand is going to make a bronze tip top also. (Chad Wigham)

Been real curious about this myself. Have had "blackened" guides shed their finish in a couple of hours.

Anybody have any idea how long Snake Guides last? From experience, Perfection’s hard chromes last about twice as long as Pac Bag hard chromes. H&H seem to last well for others - my experience is limited.

The Pac Bay Titanium guides won't loose the finish as it is a coating. According to my grinder, it's tough too. Takes a while to get through the finish. (Don Anderson)

I spoke with Mike from Snake Brand about the black finish problem, shortly after SRG and a few guys there mentioned the finish ware problem on the black tip tops. He's working on a new plating process that's much more durable, probably has it on line by now...

He mentioned that he sure would like to hear from those that are having problems so he can make it right as he has not had much feedback on the problem. (Dave Collyer)

I've nothing to say but good things about Mike McCoy. He doesn't at all mind if you call and give him feedback, whether positive or negative. He's always interested in improving his product, and goes out of his way to make things right. Beside the fact that he makes the best guides out there, bar none, I'd buy from only him, regardless, just 'cause he's a nice guy and he really tries to do things right. (Martin-Darrell)

I am wondering what different types of lengths some of you file your guide feed down to. This is not something I could find in the archives with a brief search and thought it might be interesting. Wayne suggests a 5/32" length in his book stating that longer lengths will tend to pull wraps apart.  Has anyone experienced this? How long is too long? How short is too short?  (Carl DiNardo)

I do not measure my guide feet, but I go by proportion. I lop off almost (but not quite) the entire tapered portion of the foot with a nippers, then regrind a taper using a small grinding tool in a Dremel. This is on Pacific Bay guides. Snake brand I am less sure about. I made one rod with snake guides, and recall trimming them just a bit, but many makers use them as is with no touchup.

The guide foot may vary in length, but my wrap does not. 23 turns except on the stripper, which gets as much thread as needed to cover the entire foot. Howells calls this "the spare minimalist look".

By the way, I tried not trimming the guide feet on one rod, and it just didn't look right. I ended up cutting off the wraps and trimming the feet. (Jeff Schaeffer)

I use Snake Brand Guides almost exclusively. One reason is that the feet are very close to the same length when you receive the guides. I don't shorten the guides at all, but do grind a little more shallow taper to the foot. Each size guide ends up with different sized feet. I make sure all my wraps on size 2/0 are the same length, same for 1/0, 1, 2, etc...

I do shorten the feet of stripping guides some. Just guessing, I'd say I shorten them to 5/16" or 3/8". (Harry Boyd)

What is the proper size tip top for the 7’ Sir D (.068 tip). Looking at Snake Brand and everything seems to be in mm and I don't remember my conversions. (John Freedy)

The sizes aren't in mm, they're actually in 64ths. In your case, .068" works out pretty close to a 4.5 tip top, which is .070". (Mark Wendt)

Be aware though that unless you want to shave down the apexes you have to measure apex to apex, not flat to flat. Fitting a winding check you have to measure apex to apex unless you get a hexagonal winding check. (Darryl Hayashida)

The geometry works out that the apex-apex measure equals roughly 1.15 times the flat-flat measure. For tip-tops I try to stay somewhere in between. For example:

Flat-Flat = .070 x 64 = 4.48/64ths

Apex-apex = .070 x 1.15 = .080 x 64 = 5.15/64ths

So you could use either 4.5/64ths or 5/64ths. I'd probably go with 5/64ths so I wouldn't have to sand off as much of the apexes. A 4.5/64ths tip-top would work fine too. (Tom Bowden)

I am wondering about what choices I have when it comes to refinishing the feet of snake guides after I have dressed them. Specifically the feet on the titanium oxide black finish snake guides. Will a standard bluing compound work of is there a better option.  (Mike Maero)

I touch mine up with the appropriate colored art marker, black or dark blue in this case.  (Timothy Troester)

Anyone have any experience with plated strippers? Do they take a bluing, or is that a waste of time since it will wear off? (Greg Kuntz)

If you use a black marker pen ( I do and it works fine) make sure that it is a water based solution. If the base is one of the volatile fluids there is a good chance that it will bleed into the varnish when you apply it. Most water based markers set out this information on the pen but if in doubt water based marker pens do not have any smell whereas the pens with a volatile base usually have a chemical smell. (Ian Kearney)

I've used a black permanent marker, followed by a seal coat of lacquer. (Ted Knott)

I use my bluing solution on my guide feet and don't have to coat it before wrapping the guide. Someone else asked in  reply to this if bluing solutions would work on plated guides. No, not any that I've found, including mine. (Bob Nunley)

Trout season opens in Minnesota on January 1. While there is no final solution to frozen guides I have made a couple winter rods by making and using #5 snake guides out of titanium wire and cutting the number of guides on the tip to 4. using the # 5 guides all the way and making my own tip guide with the same wire with the loop big enough to put a lead pencil through. I don't use a stripper either I use a snake there also. When the build up of ice is too bad I hold the rod in the water till the guides thaw out.

Patience here is necessary but then that is a given if you can fish and have any kind of line control with mittens on. 

A sense of humor doesn't hurt either. (Dave Norling)

Of those of you who have or have tried the Golden Witch Snake Guide Maker what are your opinions on it's performance and is it worth buying a set? Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd is it essential that you get the Flat Foot Tool set to go with it? (Paul Blakley)

I've had fair-to-middlin' luck with the snake guide maker. Perhaps I just haven't fooled around with it enough to get really familiar with the process. I tend to get a tighter set of turns on one end than the other, and haven't quite been able to lick that wrinkle. Also, it takes more than a little practice before you can turn out various sizes of guides that are absolutely uniform in the length of their twists. It's an ingenious and simple little device, but like any device, it requires technique.

On the positive side, you can use any type of wire you like and have a really hard surface. I bought a few sizes of piano wire through a local music store. And, yes, you definitely need a foot flattener. I bought the full set about 7 years ago, but the plate (or "anvil") on the flattener is not a really hard steel, and I noticed after banging out a few guide feet that the plate was becoming indented from the hard wire. Now, I don't know if Dave LeClair has changed materials or not since then, but you might inquire about that. (Bill Harms)

I have the set and like it a lot, I can make nice tight loops. I don't have the flat foot tool, as Golden Witch was out of them and they say they will not be getting them until mid '04. At the moment I'm just using a file to shape the feet. I have tried using my bench vise and a hammer, but the vise didn't hold up to well, the wire chipped it. When Golden Witch has them in I will be getting the Flat Foot Tool set, unless I can find a way to make them good and flat without it. Golden Witch sent me some instructions on how to make my own Flat Foot Tool, using a "T slot" nut. I can make a copy of them if you like. (Robert Hicks)

I got mine second hand, along with the Flat Foot tool. I like the way they turn out. The Flat Foot Tool is almost a necessity for flattening the guide feet, however you can probably make one of your own with some steel stock.  I've made guides for 4 rods now, and they've turned out pretty nice. Plus, it's a nice feeling knowing that I'm able to make more and more parts of the rod. Dave LeClair got me going on collets and a collet chuck, so hopefully in the near future I'll be turning out ferrules and reel seat hardware too. (Mark Wendt)

Since I designed the Snake Maker and I know what it will do, I thought I'd chime in here. I like the way Golden Witch redesigned my Snake Maker, with a separate tool for each size guide. They do work very well. I like using it because, I can make American twist or English twist guides with it. Also, it's nice to say that you made every part of the rod.

As far as the Flat Foot Set- You would be better off getting a couple T slot Nuts from MSC and use them. Basically, I make a steel T slot nut without the threads and then harden the top of it. I don't make them as hard as I'd like to, because I'm afraid if I make it too hard, it may chip when it is hit with a hammer and I don't want anyone getting hit in the face with a piece of metal going at that speed.

But, if you get the T slot nuts, you can harden them as hard as you want. Get some Casenite hardening compound from Brownells Gunsmith Supply. It is a powder. You heat up the top of the T nut, red hot. Then sprinkle some compound over the top and keep heating it. It will turn to a liquid. This puts carbon into the metal and "case" hardens the metal. The longer you keep it red and the more compound you put on, the harder and deeper it will harden. After you have heated it for a few minutes, drop the T nut into cold water. And it will be hard. If you find after using it, that it isn't hard enough, just go over it again. (Dave LeClair)

I noticed that Casenite is ALSO available at MSC, but for a price - $12.04 for a pound of the stuff! (Ted Godfrey)

I was curious about the availability of wire for Dave's snake maker. I see that Russ sells some tungsten but what other type wire works well and where it can be found. (David Ray)

I make my own snakes since a while, although I don't use a snakemaker, I do it by hand and it works well too. I will however try and make a snakemaker soon. I use aviation lock wire. It is a stainless steel wire without memory used to secure bolts in airplanes. A friend gave it to me. I can have a look as to where to find it. It is an American company. I have no idea about resistance to wear however, but at least it doesn't rust!! It exists in different diameters.

Another wire I heard about but did not use is remanium. It is the wire used by dental technicians to make braces. Doesn't rust either... I would suggest you contact a dental technician as to where to get is. Maybe he can order some for you. (Geert Poorteman)

There's a similar stainless steel wire in marine (sailing) supply stores - Boat US, West Marine etc. I don't know if it's available in different sizes.  It's kind of soft though, might bend at the wrong time. I use it to keep my turnbuckles from loosening while sailing. (Neil Savage)

I use stainless steel wire. It comes in coils of 25', if I remember correctly, and you can order it through most real hardware stores. Don't have the sizes off the top of my head, but I can check for you tonight. (Mark Wendt)

I finally got a blank that I feel is worthy of some nice hardware so I bought all Snake Brand guides and agate stripper. Wrapped everything on and coated with a couple of coats of varnish. Test cast and I am very happy with with my little 6'3" 4 wt. My question/problem is; the edges of the ring that hold the agate in are very rough, is there an easy way to remedy, or should I remove and ask for a replacement?  (Pete McKean)

Just a suggestion since I've never run into that particular problem. The metal in the bezel (I think that's what it's called) is usually quite soft. Might try using something a little harder to mash it in a little, and then polish with a small buff on a Dremel tool.

Try at your own risk... (Harry Boyd)

I'm guessing that whoever made the stripper guide used bezel material that jewelers use, and that is pure silver. Pure silver is fairly soft, that's why most silver jewelry is made out of sterling silver, which is silver alloyed with tin and copper. Hardens the silver so that it doesn't dent or scratch as easily. Jewelers use a tool called a burnisher or a bezel pusher to form the bezel over a cabachon (rounded or oval gemstone). For a picture of the tools look here.

If you decide to try and burnish the edge do not put a lot of pressure on the solder joint between the bezel and the frame. I am certain they would have used easy (or soft) silver solder and the joint can be broken quite easily. (Darryl Hayashida)

Has anyone ever tried just gluing guides on with super glue, no wraps? (Brian Creek)

I've done that before wrapping to hold them in place. No wraps would look ugly. (Mark Dyba)

Then again, how different are they in appearance than "clear" wraps? (Rich Jezioro)

I have been doing it for years and you can't tell with clear wraps, just go easy on the super glue, just a tiny pin drop will hold them. (John Pickard)

I've been using Snake Brand bronze guides since they first came out. I can't say enough good things about them. I do a little grinding on the feet to make them look exactly the way I want. But Snake Brand guides are so far and away better than any others I've tried I hate to even think about changing.  Here's the problem: Snake Brand doesn't offer bronze tiptops, and none of the other tiptops I find match very well. Bronze tiptops are hard to find. Snake Brand in the black chrome don't look bad, but I've had a problem with the finish. Might any of you have suggestions on brands of snake guides and tiptops that you like? Bamboo rods look best to me with bronzed guides, but I'm so tired of tiptop problems that I'm even willing to try other colors. (Harry Boyd)

I actually have had the best luck with Pac Bay for black tip tops. (Timothy Troester)

Recently I was asked to build a rod as a retirement gift. After some discussion I chose the little ultralight 5 1/2 foot T & T taper that was posted here about a year or so ago. 

I am looking for some suggestions as to the size and type of the guides that I should use and also for some ideas about where I can locate some sliding rings for the reel seat. I have only seen black aluminum sliding rings at places like Janns Netcraft and at Cabelas. Are there any other options? 

Any help would be appreciated as I can't ever recall seeing a cane spinning rod before. (Mark Babiy)

I miked & posted the original taper. The original had duel bright NS ring slide bands over cork and chrome plated wire Foulproof spinning guides. This type of guide was also used by Orvis on there Superlight series and Fenwick on there early UL Glass rods. These guides were out of production for a while but I believe are being made again. Try the normal rodbuilding suppliers and also REC and Golden Witch.  If they don't have them they probably can tell you where to get them. (Marty DeSapio)

Just a thought on the spinning guides. Cabelas sells several types of spinning guides in their "Tackle Craft 2004" book even holographic and also on page 18 they have a list of what they recommend for each rod length for spinning and casting rods. For this 5.5' they suggest the following guide sizes. 1-30, 1-16, 1-10, 1-8, 2-7, 1-6. I have not used their suggestions so I do not know how accurate they are but it is something to go by. If others have better suggestions I would like to learn, I know nothing about spinning rod guides and placement. (David Ray)

Check out Golden Witch. 3 years ago or so, Russ found 2 beautiful sets of agate spinning guides and 2 spinning rod reels seats for me, I know he still has reel seats, he may have another line on the agate guides. (Doug Losey)

I would like to thank everyone that responded to my query. I am just in the middle of ferruling the blank and then will put the light wire spinning guides on the rod. These guides look like the Mildrum strippers, but are made of a finer wire. (Mark Babiy)

I am thinking about making my own snake guides. It’s no fun being short a guide or two and have to wait another week to get it in the mail. It would be nice to be able to make a few snakes if I am short. Anyone making their own snakes and willing to share info on how to get started? I would like to make bronze snakes if possible. (Kyle Druey)

I've been using the Golden Witch snake maker on the last few rods, and am starting to get the technique down. One of the tricky things with the snake maker is to remember to flip the guide in the snake maker half way through so that the "wrap" of the guide is similar on both sides. I still have a little difficulty with getting good feet consistently on each guide, but I'm getting better at that too. I've been using both the large and small flat foot tools to flatten the feet, and it takes a little practice to know when you've tapped the guide foot just enough to flatten the foot. It's not hard, just takes a little practice. I've used both Golden Witch's tungsten wire sets, and also some stainless steel wire to form my snakes. Not sure where to get the bronze wire, maybe one of the internet supply houses carry it. I've successfully "blued" the wire guides using Bob Nunley's MegaBlue (now supplied by Joe Byrd) solution though, if you're looking for that kind of finish. Watch out though, not all grades of stainless wire take bluing very well. The first brand I had didn't blue worth a hoot. I picked up some nameless stainless wire at the local hardware store and it blued up beautifully. Any other questions, give me a holler. (Mark Wendt)

If the wire blued, it is not stainless, it's high carbon steel. There is a process for blacking stainless, but trust me, you don't want to go there. You can heat stainless to about 600 F and get a brown color. The old type "bronze" snakes are not bronze, but steel that has been heat treated to the brown color. Put a magnet on them and you will see. Real bronze would be too soft and wear quickly.  (Tom Smithwick)

I go the info from Nunley, who said he was able to blue some of the stainless wire. I picked up the wire from a stainless bin at the hardware store, maybe it was mismarked. I'll have to check and see. (Mark Wendt)

How would you tell stainless from other steel? I know some (but only some) stainless alloys are nonmagnetic. Is there some other simple way for us non-metallurgists to tell? If there's a concern, I'd get some snake wire from Golden Witch. I expect their stuff will be as advertised. (Neil Savage)

I used piano wire for quite a while. Available at any good instrument repair shop and available in several different sizes. It worked quite well and blued nicely. However, I went back to buying my guides mainly for the convenience. (Randall Gregory)

The label on the bin where I grabbed it from in the hardware store.  I know not all grades of stainless are the same, I don't know what the properties of each different alloy of stainless are though. (Mark Wendt)

What about the suitability of phosphor bronze for snakes. The alloy is supposed to be much tougher and stronger than brass or copper, and is excellent for cold working. (Kyle Druey)

I’ve been using Dave LeClair’s Snake Guide maker for a few years and I thought I might give you some ideas. First I machined a cap for the female side of each guide set to only allow the male portion to insert into the female to a specified depth. As the guide gets larger the cap I machined will shorten the space that the male can be inserted. By doing this you can reproduce guides that are formed exactly the same. Although they are easy to make I always had trouble with consistency in the bends. I can turn them out without thinking. I use prestraightened music wire from MSC which is hardened somewhat in the straightening process. This wire doesn’t do well by hammering the feet {they become brittle and crack sometimes} so I us a cheap 12 ton press with a pressure gauge to press the feet out. I found a tubing drawplate from Rio Grande Supply for about 20 bucks which will fit all the sizes in the set and I press them on that. I generally plate the finished guide with Caswells cold plated nickel after forming and finishing guides. I can blacken the nickel or leave it bright. I think it has a less harsh shine than chrome. And cold plated nickel is pretty tough stuff. Dave LeClair sent me some bronze plated wire a few years ago which I don’t think he produces now. But he also sent a two part bronze coloring system which works nicely on steel you might contact him about it. By the way I use the wire diameters that are listed on the Snake Guide web site they work well. Also try out tip tops they are pretty easy to solder up as well. (David Rinker)

What sort of jig do you use to form the loop for the tip tops? (Mark Wendt)

I used to use the snake maker male side. First I would bend wire at 45 degrees or so insert it into the hole, wrap the wire around the shaft till I got back to the beginning hole. Remove the bent wire form the end to match the original bend and cut it off so both ends match. Press this into tubing and solder in place. I stopped using the snake maker and made a similar arbor out of steel now since the wire was beating up the brass hole in the snake maker. (David Rinker)

Thanks for the info. Just as a rough ballpark figure, about how long do you make the wire ends that get soldered into the tube? About 1/3 the length of the tube, or would that be too long? (Mark Wendt)

For the tips tops are you using brass tubing, such as the type that can be purchased in hobby stores? What type of solder do you use with brass? (Kyle Druey)

I make all my guides. I use stainless steel wire of different diameters. I have tubing with different diameters and I wind my wire around it to form the guide. Make the two pieces cross each other at 90°. Then bend the feet with pliers, where the two wires touch. Then pull the guide open so the feet separate and cut them to length. Then I place the guides in an open vice so the guide hangs under the feet. The feet rest on the jaws of the vice. A couple of bangs with a hammer to flatten them and then I shape the feet with a Dremel grinding wheel. Fairly easy. I have started making a guide-maker a couple of months ago. Should be quicker. I have heard about using remanium wire, the wire dental technicians use for braces, but never used it myself. Maybe copper or bronze wire? (Geert Poorteman)

There is a snake maker in The Best of the Planing Form, Vol. 1. I was just looking at it today. It's Dave LeClair's article. Dave originated the ones Golden Witch sells. Golden Witch also sells pre cut wire for snakes. (Neil Savage)

You can also obtain some good wires in dentist shops. Orthodontics use some stainless steel al titanium wires to make our children "torture apparatus". You can find these in different diameters also. (Marcelo Calviello)

Well here I go again with stupid ideas. While I was pastoring in New Mexico I got to meet a lot of silver smiths. And learned how to do a little silver work with silver wire. Now you can get some stiffer wire than just pure silver so why couldn't you make the snakes out of pure silver? It is semi soft easily molded bent and hammered flat and from what I remember cheap there or via email. Any other thoughts? (Paul Amschler)

You might consider that with silver guides you will run into tarnishing unless you do something to prepare the guides (a coating or what ever they do to keep silver from tarnishing). While the tarnish would still look good on a rod, I've noted that the silver can pit if badly tarnished and the actual tarnish is a bit tacky and may slow down the line.

Good luck with the guides.  (Scott Turner)

I have made (or rather had a jeweler made) three butt rings in sterling silver on agate rings. The rings are big, so no trout rod size rings, but I used one on a British coarse rod (the MK IV Avon) and it looks great! So yes, why not silver for snakes? (Geert Poorteman)

Surely silver is a bit soft for the job, Geert.

If you spend much time fishing in water with much suspended abrasive solids, you can chop out both Agate ring inserts and hard chrome snakes PDQ, let alone silver. (Peter McKean)

I'm going to place the guide order with Snake this weekend for rod number two. First I have a question. The first rod I made is a Para 14. I used guide sizes 1/0, 1/0, 1/0, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 10. I've been fishing it with a 4 wt DT line. The line seems to be restricted in the guides when shooting. That could be below average casting technique, faulty guide spacing or maybe the guides are too small. I've never experienced that feeling with my plastic rods, so I assume my casting isn't the cause. The spacing is based on a formula posted on the list that seems to be a generally accepted method - looks reasonable too. So I wonder if the guides are the problem.

What would be the pros and cons of going up one size across the board on my next rod (IE: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 10)? The rod will be a 7'6" 5 wt version of the Sir Daryl that I extrapolated from the original 7' 4 wt taper. It seems like the larger guides would reduce the friction when shooting line. But is there a down side? (David Bolin)

Even a 2/0 will be plenty big enough to allow shooting of an 8 weight line (see Don Phillip's book). I believe that actually in contrast to what you say, smaller guides may be better. Larger guides tend to have the line slap around in them, while the smaller guides do not. See Tom Morgan's take on it here. I tried this since Tom suggested this, and I like the smaller guides. In your case I would have probably used: 2/0, 2/0. 1/0. 1/0. 1/0, 1, 1, 2, 8 mm.

Have you tried a static test to see how the lined rod looks when bent?  (Bob Maulucci)

The line is too light, and you are not loading the rod enough to shoot line. Try it with a 5 weight, and maybe even a 6 weight, depending on how your thickness tolerances turned out. (Tom Smithwick)

For nearly a hundred rods now I've struggled with trying to get the guides on each tip in EXACTLY the same position. I mark their placement at the same time, and eyeball them as close as I can, but it's never quite perfect. There has to be some trick. Anyone willing to offer suggestions? (Harry Boyd)

No such thing as "EXACTLY" in my book, but I get them as similar as possible by completing all the wrapping on one tip first, and then matching up the guide spacing on the second tip, one-by-one. You can tape just one foot of a guide on this second tip, check alignment against the first tip, and then wrap that foot. Check again against the first tip, and if need be, you can squiggle the guide a little under the wraps. Worst case, rewrap and then carry on down the line.

When I have difficulties, they come because I always grind my feet to feather-ends. In doing this, the overall lengths from guide-to-guide sometimes vary just a tad. But you can "average" those disparities against the corresponding guide on the first tip, making sure that the wrap lengths, at least, are identical. One needs to be pretty anal to want to be sure the feet all end at identical points. On the other hand, it's fairly easy to match-up the centers of corresponding guides, and to get the wrap lengths the same. And that's what one sees quickly.

'Course the difficulties become multiplied if one is using black guides, wrapped with transparent silk. So, just don't do that. (Bill Harms)

When making my first rod, I gave considerable thought to this. I do almost exactly as Mr. Harms. I wrap the first tip, then lay it in my rod-wrapping cradle. I then lay my next tip in beside the completed one, and line them up.

However, instead of using tape to attach the guides, I use scrap thread from my first wrapping. I align the guides and then tie them in place using this scrap thread (making a couple of tight turns and then just a simple knot). This way I can make fine adjustments later. I then complete each one, checking if it needs to be adjusted before I complete the wrap.

This does not result in them being "perfect", but on my first rod they came out pretty darn good. (Dave Alexander)

Use the equivalent of what brick layers call a story pole. Use a section of lath with a block glued to one end for a stop. A pencil mark across the lath marks the position of each guide. You can also keep such info as the size and the length of the wraps for that guide at that position. I also have marked placement and number of wraps in the signature wrap. Use one for each model rod you make. To use just lay the blank on the lath with the end butted against the stop block and lay the guide at the mark. I use a very small cloths pin I found in a craft store to secure the guide until it is wrapped in place. My guides always come out in the same spot for all rods of that model. (Jerry Drake)

One trick for keeping the guides in place until the wraps are on is to get a bag of the small rubber bands that orthodontists use on braces. Place one on each guide foot and then when the thread gets up to it cut it off using a razor blade or scalpel. They're also good for test casting to find the best guide placement. (Larry Puckett)

I have tried this approach and it did not work well for smaller rods so I would simply recommend 1/4" masking tape that has not been sitting on the shelf too long. (Larry Tusoni)

I have been using Teflon plumbers tape for this as well as test casting, to cover ferrules and my cork while dipping I use the Teflon then masking, etc. It works great comes off like a flash with no cleaning to do, and is real cheap.  (Ron Rees)

An even smaller source are small urinary catheters (unused, of course) They're a small diameter red latex tubing that you can slice to get very small diameter bands. I don't remember sizes. (Greg Kuntz)

I have to ask, how far out of line are your guides? Are you looking for .001 variance or are you using the wooden yardstick again. ;>)

I mark the layout using lines wider than the blank on masking tape put on my workbench or use adding machine tape if I want to save the layout. With the blank in place I cut very thin pieces of masking tape 1/16 or smaller, and line up on the blank with the mark. Then center the guide from the top center of the eye to the marker tape while I tape the guide to the blank. Marker tape comes off easily after both wraps are done. I know it passed the yardstick test but don't know about using the caliper on it. (Gary Jones)

I use the story pole technique and keep the guides in place with small bands cut from the rubber(??) gas lines they use for model airplanes. My hobby shop carries them in four sizes. I've found it to be superior to rubber bands, tape and thread. As w