Are winding checks necessary? Advantages / Disadvantages?

Looking at the different rods some have them some don't. (Pete Van Schaack)

Necessary, no, but they do serve a purpose, purely cosmetic, in making a break point, so to speak, between the cork and the check wraps. Some of my rods have them, some do not, just depends on what the customer wants. Personally, I prefer a good, clean wrap right up to the cork and that's what all of my personal rods have, however, most of the rods I make for others have winding checks. (Bob Nunley)

Not at all. I seldom use them except if the customer want them. Their main purpose was to hide a poor fit between cork and cane. Some people feel they give a rod a more finished look. (Marty DeSapio)

I personally never have used winding checks on bamboo, but I'm reconsidering that. Many of the better looking rods at the Gatherings ARE equipped with winding checks. When one can get knurling on the check which matches the knurling on the reel seats, it does look nice. In fact, I think a Bellinger seat, check, and ferrules -- all with the same knurl pattern -- really looks sharp. Functionally, they add nothing. But cosmetically they can make a difference.  (Harry Boyd)

I like nickel silver winding checks for cosmetic touch and use them on all my rods. I use the check as the place where I stop the rod when dip varnishing (I'm not a big fan of varnishing onto the edge of the grip. I use Jeff Wagner's winding check punches to convert round checks into hex and quad checks. I also like and use strap and ring hook keepers. I started buying and using cane rods in the 70's and I really liked the cosmetics of Leonard's and T&T's, which used winding checks and hook keepers. (Bob Williams)

Just finished mounting the ferrules on a Para 14 and low and behold, my beautiful hand made hex winding check will not go over the ferrule. I've never encountered this before, however this taper has virtually no swell. (Dennis Bertram)

Happened to me about a month or so ago and we discussed the problem here then. Fortunately I used ferrule titer so all I had to do was reheat the ferrule to pull it off, install the winding check, and then reinstall the ferrule. Suggest you do the same. (Larry Puckett)

That's happened to me more than once! I seldom use winding checks anymore. (Marty DeSapio)

If you have not mounted the grip yet, try fitting it from the bottom. It worked for me on a Para 15. Had to do a little fudging. (Tony Spezio)

Does anyone know the original use for/function of winding checks? Are they something that has been "grandfather'd" into the cosmetics of cane rods, but without a functional purpose? (Joe West)

From what I have read and heard over time is the winding check for the most part is decorative, with it's only true purpose to hide a poor fit between the cork and bamboo at the end of the grip. I don't use them mostly because I always forget to put it on before the ferrule. I't double wrap at the cork for 8-10 turns and then varnish coat the very end of the cork to seal the little spaces created by the hex to round difference. (Pete Van Schaack)

Actually, the winding check not only dresses off the leading end of the grip, but it was intended to keep the cork from chipping and breaking.

For years I've used a 10 cent coin from the Netherlands as a blank for a winding check, but I'm down to my last one. Since the introduction of the Euro they're no longer available, so if anyone knows where I could get a dozen or so, let me know off list. (Ron Larsen)

Bob Milward gave a brief presentation at Corbett Lake on a die and punch made from a cap screw and an Allen wrench for making winding checks with a hexagonal hole using blanks of "little round bits of nickel silver with a picture of the Queen on one side. And guess what? They only cost a nickel!" US and Canadian nickels are made from an alloy that's 25% nickel and 75% copper. If you use the Canadian ones, be careful. Since 1999 (and for a some interspersed periods before that) they have  been made  of nickel-plated steel. You can always confirm the composition with a magnet.

Bob grinds off the work-hardened tip of the cap screw and drills a hole through the center of the screw so you can punch pieces back out from the bottom. Then uses a piece of an Allen wrench for the punch to cut the hex hole. After that, you just chuck the punch in your lathe to turn the outside of the check to whatever profile you want (Robert Kope)

The purist in me says they are not necessary and my glass and carbon rods, which have always inclined towards minimalism, have never had any.

But a very small neat one, and it can hardly be too small, can look nice on cane. I think nickel silver is nicer than aluminum, but some sort of gold plated metal would be even nicer. (Robin Haywood)

I always thought checks were to hide a poor fit between the cork and cane. They certainly look better than a gap. (Gary Lohkamp)

Just thought of something, could they have also been something to shield the unvarnished under grip area from moisture?

Maybe not. (Joe West)

I have been looking at some of the private builder sites and I noticed that a number of them don't use winding checks, but instead just wrap thread either up to or in some cases onto the cork handle. First of all, I was wondering how many of you don't use a standard winding check but instead just use thread?  Andy then, if you wrap the thread onto the cork how do you hold it there (varnish?) and if so does it stand up to use very well? I would think that the soft nature of the cork would cause it to compress and pull away from the thread. (Tom Mohr)

I don't use winding checks, preferring to use the thread as you describe. When the cork grip is formed on the rod rather than on a mandrel, it's simple to get a tight fit between cork and bamboo. I ream the hole just a tad small on the uppermost ring, and force it into place. Cork stretches enough that it readily takes on a hex shaped hole.

I don't usually wrap up the cork. Instead, I stop right where cork and bamboo meet. If you do wrap up the cork, you might try a drop of super glue rather than a traditional tie-off loop. Under the varnish, it will hold up quite well.

Several folks here make a small "ramp" of 5 minute epoxy and let the thread ride up that ramp. They keep the rod turning while coaxing the epoxy into shape. (Harry Boyd)

I've done this on several graphite rods and one bamboo. The 5 minute epoxy ramp sounds like a clever idea. I used an old bamboo blank as a mandrel, turning the cork right to the blank corners and then using sandpaper to taper the flats down. I use the same type of tie-off loop I use on guides. You don't want to wrap too tightly on the cork as it will compress unevenly. (Henry Mitchell)

A trick I learned from building a drift boat using a LOT of epoxy is to use fumed silica as a filler which will make the epoxy pasty so it stays in place. This allow you to form it any way you want and as it begins to set up you can smooth it all out with a WET finger or other smooth tool. Of course, it takes some time to thoroughly blend in the silica so you need an epoxy with a longer cure time. You have to gradually add the silica until it no longer runs. I never measured the exact ratios but I think it was about one volume of silica to three volumes of epoxy. Where can you get fumed silica you might ask? From a boat builders supply like RAKA in Fla. (Al Baldauski)

Just MHO, but I think you want it goopy and runny and not like a paste. Because, if its like a paste you're going to wind up having to sand it (spinning the blank) before you ramp the thread (unless you're a lot better than I am with a putty knife or spreader). I did it once a long time ago with a graphite rod and five-minute epoxy worked just fine. Besides, five minute epoxy will be easier to get off if it doesn't quite work out. (Bill Walters)

Another old boat builder's trick to thicken epoxy was to add powdered sugar. How much? Keep adding the PS till it gets to the consistency you want. I love simple things that work... (Don Schneider)

Or, you can run down to your local hobby shop, and pick up a product called "microballoons." They're tiny glass bubbles, add very little weight, and make the epoxy sand like butter. (Mark Wendt)

An epoxy like Rod Bond will stay in place without having to add other material to it. (Henry Mitchell)

I have also used the epoxy method quite a bit. Instead of tying off or using super glue, though, I just tape off the tag end of the tread onto the cork. Give a spiral wind or two around the grip to keep it tight, and stick it down. After the first coat/dip of finish, you can cut the thread with a razor for a nice clean line.

Works best, though, if the front end of the grip isn't too steep. AND, don't use too much thread tension. Less is best, in this case, because it is decorative. Too much tension and you risk having the whole thing collapse, and that ain't fun.

As for coaxing the epoxy, glob on a bit of epoxy in a reasonable circle around the rod and hold the rod at an upright angle (not too steep) and turn it around a bit while the epoxy flows. This creates a nice taper and you can get the epoxy flush to the front end of the cork. Turn the rod back and forth to fill any low sections or to keep the epoxy even.

One final caveat. Watch out for large bubbles with the 5 minute epoxy. They won't stick up or make a hole (generally), but if you aren't careful, the bubbles may show through if the thread turn translucent after the finish is applied. (Jason Swan)

I recently had a rod that needed a winding check badly due to a grip with some surprise pits that appeared during final sanding. Then, of course, I forgot to put the thing on until it was way too late in the game.

I did a Garrison style wrap up on the cork, but it looked like hell until I did it with black Size A nylon. Once it was varnished it looked no different than silk, and the thicker thread was able to cover the rough spots easily. Looked kind of cool, although I prefer a check.

I can easily understand why makers stick with thread only. It does not matter how many winding checks you have in the shop, none of them will fit the rod you are working on at the time. Then it is either wait for the next Golden Witch order, or haul out the lathe. And then learn that the only nickel silver you have on hand is the 3/4 inch solid stuff.

Sad, but true. (Jeff Schaeffer)

I usually use preformed grips, and it can be difficult to get a tight fit like Harry describes. I just mix up some cork dust & Elmer's glue to fill any gap at the end of the grip, and then wind the thread right up to the end of the grip. (Tom Bowden)

Every time I cut off my cork checks using a cutoff tool the piece is not true. The back is usually slightly domed. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong. Same thing happens with the butt cap. Am I trying to cut too much with a cut off? (Lee Orr)

I would say the cutoff blade is not a true 90 degrees to the cork. Set the blade flush with the face of the chuck jaws. Crank the cutter blade up against the chuck Jaws and lock down the tool post. (Tony Spezio)

Or the cross slide isn't 90 degrees. (Ron Larsen)

If the piece still in the chuck has an opposite curve, then either the cutoff tool is not at 90 degrees to the lathe center line, or the tool is flexing for some reason. Do you lock the carriage before you cut off? If not, the carriage may be moving.

If both the part and the scrap are domed, it sounds as if the cut off tool doesn't have enough clearance. (Neil Savage)

Other than Jeff Wagner’s hex winding check punch, is there another product or way to make your own hex checks? I was wondering if you could take a ring expander and grind the hex shape in. Any thoughts other than just buy one? (Doug Hall)

I suppose you could get a piece of hex steel and grind/file/mill it to a taper, but it would probably be more cost-effective in the long run to just buy one. (Neil Savage)

A few years ago at the Canadian Gathering in Canada, the Ontario Bells Lake group, Carol O’Connor showed me a set of Allen Hex Key wrenches which he modified for check expansion of Hex Checks. He simply put a taper on the short end of the allen wrenches and used a hammer to tap on the angle point of the wrench. Seems like it would work. (Alex Wolff)

Although I use a hex punch now - available at CSE also - I used to cut the hex shape with a triangle file. Establish the first three grooves and then reposition the file so the next three grooves are centered to the initial cuts. Takes a little more time but does work well. Good luck with it. (Rob Smith)

I had one made by my local school voc. tech. shop to the specs in "Best of TPF". They wanted less than $10 for material costs and gave a student a practical lesson in solid geometry. (David Van Burgel)

I made one from a 1/2" allen wrench. Not all that hard to do. I heated it to red hot with a propane torch and allowed to cool to remove the temper. Then I filed a taper on the longer end until I reached a size I thought I would need. Filing seems easier to do than to try grinding a smooth taper.

Seems to work OK. I am sure I did not attempt to retemper the tool. I believe that it is harder than any material I would use on it. (Steve Shelton)

When using the "punch method", how much does this distort the round winding check? That's why I've been reluctant to try the expensive hex punch. I like the idea of filing down a section of an allen wrench (I'm cheap). I set up a bracket on my lathe to lock the chuck in six different positions in the circle. Then use a small grinding bit in a Dremel tool mounted on the tool post to grind flat spots inside a nickel silver rod, then part off sections for winding checks. I usually buy them, but the quality of the last ones that I got.... Well, I'm looking for new ideas also!! (David Dziadosz)

Do you use a grinding tool or a cutting tool? (Ron Grantham)

The smallest diamond grinding bit I have is 1/16" diameter. Looking for something a little smaller. I use it in a Dremel tool. (David Dziadosz)

I made a round one on my lathe and then using a allen wrench, banded it with a hammer to make it hex shaped. i really didn't like the results but it "didn't " looked banged on. I just like the round looks. (Martin Jensen)

Get the one from Jeff Wagner, it's money well spent. I buy round rope knurled winding checks from REC(those of you with the talent, tooling and inclination feel free to make your own) and hex them myself. The formula is flat to flat dimension in decimal inches x 66.664 = round winding check dimension in 64ths needed to hex to fit. (John Channer)

While we're on winding checks, I recently saw a Winston (one of the last of the Brackett era) that had a bamboo winding check. It looked pretty snazzy. Anybody have any idea how they do that? (Darrol Groth)

Yes, those bamboo checks are pretty nice. A friend of mine in Sydney ( a VERY successful money market trader, as will become apparent ) caught the bamboo bug and bought three Winstons, including rods marked "Ultimate" and "Penultimate", being the last two Glenn Brackett Winstons. Both the rods that I saw had the bamboo check, and it looked to me just as though 1/2" slices from the butt end of a swelled-grip rod were drilled out and hex-fitted with a file.

I thought that the level of work and finish was superb all through these rods, and the matching of the Duronze fittings with a very pale yellow binding thread was spectacular.

Bruce took them off to a fishing lodge here in Tasmania called London Lakes, where a couple of huge private lakes yield very big browns indeed - 4 to 6 pounds are common, and these are wild fish, not stockies - and the Winstons acquitted themselves very well. Mind you, at an all-up cost of close to $1000 a day for guided fishing, not including accommodation, it would all need to be very, very good. 

Bruce tells me that he is going to go over and see Glenn Brackett with a view to getting a couple more! Nice to have the folding stuff, isn't it? (Peter McKean)

Check out the Power Fibers Winding Check on Todd's site. Is this what you mean? (Ron Larsen)