Yes, we all have our favorite regimens, and most of us try to take care in how we run our strips. But the question remains: Does any of us really know what we're doing with regard to the holy grail of cross-linking (polymerization)? Despite all the dogma on one side and the other, I think this part remains a crap-shoot.

I insist, too, that the most important single factor in producing a good rod is to start with ONLY excellent cane. So, finally, I wonder how many of us really knows how (or dares) to put each culm to the test.  (Bill Harms)

I was not suggesting that my approach to heat treating is a good approach, only addressing my earlier email screw-up and Mark's questions.

Now, I think the only thing we know for sure is that research done by the wood products industries document that changes do occur structurally in those materials when cooked - now bamboo is a grass that grows like a composite wood material and is harvested, dried, and available to rodmakers. It is a natural organic material composed mostly of cellulose that can be modified by chemical action such as the addition of heat or other chemicals. For example, cellulose was modified into cellulose acetate and made into photo films of the past ;-), and into a variety of textile fibers. Cellulose has also been modified to make explosives,  rayon, and varnishes.  So cellulose, a major component of  a composite bamboo, and is an interesting material with wide chemical properties and modifiable characteristics. I believe the works of Milward and Schott speak to the issue of heat treating bamboo; whether it is a crap-shoot Bill, I am not sure I would go that far. I think we know some of the particulars of the heat treating process, so each of us needs to adapt it as we choose to the rods we make.

As far as selecting excellent bamboo cane; well I think we figure this out after we have made the rod ;-) and live with its results >:-} - the devil is in the details. (Frank Paul)

How do you put each culm to the test.

For myself, I look for straightness of fiber, heft of culm, then I take a close look at the fibers crosswise at what will become the ends of the blanks and look for uniformity.

Am I close or completely out of the ballpark?  (Ren Monllor)

Yes, do all these things. But most importantly, take an initial strip from the culm (no less than a uniform, 3/8" width), plane its pith side to a uniform thickness as well, and submit each area between each node to a severe bending between your hands. Feel for that section's willingness to yield, watch for the uniformity of the bend, and when released, watch especially, how it wants to return to its original position.

A good strip will feel "steely" when bending, and will show a smooth curve. When suddenly released, it will want to snap back to something close to its original shape. Any "mushiness," lack of uniform bending, or weakness in springing back will indicate a culm that cannot be used. When this condition is found, it will usually be in only one of the internode areas, and not through the whole strip. You will see and feel the difference. A weak, internode area will implicate the entire circumference of the culm at that location, and the culm is trash.

Even in a GOOD culm, you may ruin the test-strip in the bending process (if you're really looking for the truth). But this seems like a fair trade-off for the security of knowing you have a good culm. You'd be surprised how many culms are really unsuitable or marginal, which may account for why most makers prefer not to know. The common assumptions are that any good-looking culm that's been hand-selected, well-seasoned, visually inspected and heat-treated will be fine. Sorry, not so. Bamboo is a strange material, and you don't always get what you're assuming.  (Bill Harms)

I absolutely agree with you, Bill

I do it a little differently than what you suggested. I test each strip throughout the planing process, as I have found that at times, once the strips get thinner, I’ll come across a weak spot when compared to others.

You are right, as if I find the weak spot in one strip, I usually find it in others.

At that point, the whole thing goes in the garbage, and I kick the dog.

Doing it as you suggest might save me a little time though.  (Ren Monllor)

Just curious.  Anyone ever build a bamboo rod and not heat treat? If so, what where the results? Don’t recall hearing of anyone ever heat treating red heart, hickory or any other woods/grasses. Why bamboo? Or is it just one of those things “MY Grand Daddy did it so should I”. I know there is a lot of theory out there but does that make it right? What’s your thoughts????? Anyone have any FACTS?  (Don Schneider)

When I built my rod for the Grand Experiment I did not heat treat.  It was a spiral and has not taken any sets and I think you would have a hard time knowing it wasn't heat treated by the way it casts.  It was made from well aged cane (20 years old).  (Scott Grady)

I assume you used no heat for node displacement and built the spiral at glue up using no heat. I am curious. I have known it to be done both ways.  (Timothy Troester)

Responses:

-anecdotal evidence (See, The Lovely Reed) suggests some culms are just born that way, i.e., so well-seasoned that tempering is superfluous.

-some makers, e.g., Jan Jancourt, limit tempering to flaming the culm.

So . . . Two possibilities.  It’s a variation of “In God we trust; all others pay cash.”  So unless you’re Jan or have 50-yr old cane, it’s probably advisable to heat treat.  (apparently).  (Steve Yasgur)

We have here a gentleman who wrote a book, who is now an authority. Has anyone on the list ever seen, or cast, a Jack Howell rod? (Jerry Foster)

Maybe you missed this thread. The pictures here are the only ones I've seen of Howells rods. I've never had the opportunity to cast any but they do appear to be very well made.  (Will Price)

I suppose the thing to do at this  point is to start building rods with no heat. No heat for node displacement. no heat for flaming. Use both new bamboo and some of the old stuff also and see what happens.  (Timothy Troester)

Just curious.  Anyone ever build a bamboo rod and not heat treat? If so, what where the results? Don’t recall hearing of anyone ever heat treating red heart, hickory or any other woods/grasses. Why bamboo? Or is it just one of those things “MY Grand Daddy did it so should I”. I know there is a lot of theory  out there  but does  that make it right? What’s your thoughts????? Anyone have any FACTS?  (Don Schneider)

I built a Thramer 44DX with bamboo ferrules and was only doing this to see if I would be able to make the bamboo ferrules.  I didn’t heat treat and the rod casts great.  My ferrules turned out great.  I can’t wait to fish the rod.  However, I was doing some stress testing to see how the ferrule reacts when the rod is bent to an extreme and the tip section now has a  nasty set.  Well, it did until I bent it the other way.  It is straight now and remains straight when casting and I assume under normal fishing conditions.  But, if I ever want to “tweak” it, I can bend the tip and make it stay in just about any position I want.  Is that because I used a mushy culm or because I didn’t heat treat?  I don’t  know.  But what I did learn from this whole thread, is that I will definitely be testing my culms for mushy strips and will continue to heat treat my rods.  All thanks to this list.  (Greg Reeves)

A number of years ago, John Long organized what was called the “Grand Experiment”.  He had people build the same taper but each one had a specific deviation, one such deviation was “no heat treat”.  There were 20 some rods in the test and they were made available to cast at the Fergus gathering.  As I remember, the heat treated and the non heat treated version cast about the same;  however with the non heat treated rod, you could bend the tip and it would easily take a set.   (Dennis Bertram)

If it's any consolation, I've done the same over bend thing to various makes of classic rods, including a Payne, a Leonard, 2 Heddons, a top of the line Gene Edwards, and 4 or 5 of my own rods, all stayed bent, NONE returned to their original condition until I shook the sets out like Marinaro says to do after  landing a heavy fish. Interestingly, the 2 Heddons came closer to straight than any of the others. Time doesn't seem to make much difference either, I have several reject sections in the shop that I put a bend in just to see if they would creep back to where they were over time, it's been several years and they're still closer to bent than straight. I think what really counts is how they hold up to actual fishing conditions, fwiw.  (John Channer)

Tempering bamboo makes a superior fly rod.  You just need to plane a strip of untreated bamboo at the same time as planing a strip of tempered bamboo and you immediately know there is a difference.

That said, there is a technique for proper heat treating.  This was explained to me by Walton Powell.  You can't just turn on the torch and flame away.  According to Walton, that ruins the bamboo.

Not using tempered bamboo is a faster, easier way to make an inferior rod.  Your choice.  (Chris Raine)

I think that it has been established that aboriginal man not only heated wood to bend it since some artifacts are most assuredly arrow straighteners (like tamegi) and also hardened the ends of spears and arrows in fire to make them harder.  And this was not even grass.  I still remain very convinced that bamboo undergoes a transformation when heated properly.  (Ralph Moon)

We have all experienced heating bamboo to a point it becomes pliable and we have all experienced  once pliable bending/twisting it to a new orientation and stay once cooled. Did the bamboo undergo some sort of transformation? Maybe it did and maybe it didn’t, I don’t know. I don’t believe bamboo undergoes a transformation that is beneficial to rod building somewhere between green and charcoal. What, where and if this happens I don’t have a clue.

My conclusion: The real purpose of ovens is to dry out the cane more rapidly than air drying and the magical transformation never happens..

Anyone care to join me and Ralph making spear points?  (Don Schneider)

If you don't soak, why bother..it'll be ambient in a few days to a year with varnish anyway. In fact if you don't soak and your bamboo is old enough, driving out the water will just shrink it and when it swells back up, your numbers will be off, does it matter, no, just a fact.  (Jerry Foster)

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