Links:

   A tour of Ron Hock’s shop.

I put an RFQ for all-carbide 9 1/2 plane blades into a specialty blade company and received the following reply. I can now see why Mr. Boyd got a 1/2" section of carbide brazed onto his blade. I'm really happy I didn't ask for a quote on their ceramic blades!

Of course, if there are ten of you who want to pay $175 per blade, who am I to stop you? I'll furnish the name of the company on request off list. No financial interest on my part.

The Response:

"Joe,

Thanks for your inquiry. I would anticipate that a prototype run of 10 blades would cost approximately $1750. If this is still of interest to you, let me know and we'll work out what we need to do to get started!

Thanks, Andy Ringgold" (Joe West)

I do have the next thing to carbide, high speed steel blades. (Alan Taylor)

Alan's blades are excellent. My go to blade. (Mike Canazon)

I do all my finish planing with one of Alan's HSS blades. I sharpen the blade on abrasive papers on plate glass, and then polish with a leather wheel and green compound. Gets, and stays, veryyyyyyy sharp. (Ted Knott)

I got my L-N 9 1/2 and I was wondering if I should change the L-N Blade to a Hock.  Also, does the sole of the plane needs flattening or is it good to go out of the box? (Matt Baun)

I have two L-N planes. Both were completely ready to go right out of the box. My 9 1/2 has a grooved sole and it is perfect.

I use L-N blades on both, they've been great. (Patrick Mullen)

I have used both L-N and Hock blades. I find there is a difference but both are good. I would be hard pressed to declare one better. (Timothy Troester)

I've used the L-N iron next to a Hock cryo iron and think the L-N is at least as good. (Henry Mitchell)

The Lie-Nielsen blade is every bit as good as Hock blade, no need to switch. Also, it is better than good to go out of the box, I doubt if you could improve the sole of it no matter how hard you worked at it. (John Channer)

Has anyone used the replacement A2 plane blades from Lee Valley Tools? I'm struggling with the comparison to the Hock A2's that are sold by Golden Witch for twice the price. Not trying to cheap out here, but I'd rather not pay an extra $25 for the Hock version if they are made up of the same material. (Scott Bahn)

I recently ordered some Hock blades from Lee Valley for my Lie-Nielsen 9 1/2. Don't fit, so I'll be sending them back. The dimension of the blade is OK, but the slot where the adjusting screw/cap fits is not even close. I checked Hocktools.com and I'm still confused/not sure what to order. I'm going to give Hock Tools a call to find out what to order. I'm sure some of you have been through this before. Would appreciate any words of wisdom. What do I order and from whom? (Don Schneider)

Well, I happen to live close enough to a Woodcraft Supply store to take my plane in and pick an iron that fit. I'm not sure if they carry the Lee Valley, my iron is a Hock. Frankly, I don't think it's much if any better than the iron that came with my plane (a 40+ year old Craftsman.)  (Neil Savage)

There are two different Hock blades for the 9 1/2 plane. You need to talk to them before you order. If I had it to do over I would just use the blade that comes with the plane. You can get it just as sharp as the Hook, and in less time, and save yourself a little money too.

I know the Stanley blade doesn't hold a sharp edge as long as the Hock, but with a leather wheel or a felt wheel on a power set up you can put a razor edge on a iron in about 60 seconds. (Mark Wendt)

The only place to get replacement blades for your Lie-Nielsen plane is from Lie-Nielsen. The design of their blade and the depth adjustment mechanism of the plane are unique. Lee Valley sells A2 blades for Stanley 9 1/2 planes, and the ones with a 5/8" slot should work with a Record plane. They also sell blades for their Veritas block planes, but again, those are a unique blade and will fit no other brand of plane. (Robert Kope)

The Veritas plane blades (A2) are made to fit the Veritas planes, of which I have two, and do not fit a newer (or older) Stanley. The A2 blades are thicker too (which contributes to a smooth cut). I also have a Hock blade for a Stanley plane and use it sometimes, but the Veritas planes are so much better than a Stanley in terms of heft and ergonomics (plus the thicker blade and flat sole out of the box) that the edge easily goes to Lee Valley when I reach for a plane. (Paul Franklyn)

I noticed too that the Lee Valley blades are thicker, .125 as advertised in the current catalog I received. I have the newer Stanley 9 1/2 made in the UK and I just measured it and I think the LV blades will work just fine.  The price advertised for the A2 is $24.50, but one needs to be careful in which version you order, it might require a phone call to make sure. (Scott Bahn)

Here's another plane question prompted by my inexperience. How does one check the depth of the plane iron? I am in the process of grooving my plane soles, and I have heard to set the plane iron just above the level of bottom of the sole. I have also heard of people setting the plane to take a .002" or smaller cut. How do you guys measure that? My depth gauge doesn't seem to do that very well. Is it experience? Do you practice and mike the practice shavings? (Jason Swan)

I'm new too, but what I do is take some shavings from a test strip and measure them. I think I saw this in Jack Howell's book. (Tim Stoltz)

I hope this is not too far off the subject, but there is something that I would like an opinion on. I picked up two of the the new Hock cryo blades. I have found that they do hold up longer between sharpenings, but are not QUITE as durable as some others have reported. I get two strips planed between sharpenings, while some other posts have reported three or more strips. This is not surprising as each maker has their own opinion about when it is time to resharpen.

But this is what I have noticed. I can get the cryo blades much sharper. Now, this could be because I think they hold a finer edge and spend a bit more time on them, or it might be my imagination entirely, but they seem to end up with a finer final edge than the regular Hock blades. Has anyone else noticed this, and would there be a rational (metallurgical) explanation for it?

This is not to say that the regular Hocks do not take a fine edge. They do. (Jeff Schaeffer)

From a metallurgical standpoint, the standard high carbon irons should take a finer edge. This is because of grain size. The introduction of chromium into the base alloy causes a general increase in grain size. Larger grained steel is more difficult to put a super-keen edge on. Once you have a keen edge, it should stay on there longer, regarding general dulling (not chipping). All, in general. The tempering process may alter this general idea, I am not familiar with the effects of freezing steel. That is what I am blaming for my failed attempt at making useful A2 irons last year. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! (Troy Miller)

Want to get your opinion on plane irons. I've got the chance to have a blacksmith buddy of mine, do some tempering on my plane irons. He's an incredibly talented smith and has offered to harden the blades if I'd like. What I'm wondering is, how much difference does the iron make? I've got a hock iron I could give him and I have a Stanley Iron. I wonder if the metal  actually makes much difference, or is the hardness of the temper what really matters? I'm really not completely happy with the A2 blades I have for my Lie-Nielsen Plane. They're tough as hell, and last, but in no way do they cut as well as my Hock Blades. I've had to increase the bevel on the A2 blade to stop it from chipping and that could be part of the reason why it won't cut like the lower angle Hock Blade. Is there a steel out there that will hold an edge like the A2 blade and still cut like the Hock Iron, or am I living in dream world? (Jim Bureau)

I bought a couple A2 Hock plane blades from Chris Bogart that he had Ron Hock make for the Lie-Nielsen 9 1/2 planes. I sharpened them last night but have yet to use them, but plan to try them this weekend. As far as the LN blades I've been somewhat disappointed (as have some others I've spoken to) with their A2 blades and even like their pre A2 blades better. I really like the A2 Hocks I use with my Record and Stanley 9 1/2's so I have high hopes for the new ones for the LN plane (which is a really awesome plane).  (Bob Williams)

I know this was run to ground a few months back but does anybody out there use tungsten carbide cutters to plane bamboo strips? If so, how long are you getting between sharpenings and does proper sharpening have any negative effect on the edge after a time? I know the edge is never as good as you can get with carbon steel (and all the other cutting edge type alloys) but is it good enough to be worth looking into? (Tony Young)

I haven't used a regular plane blade with a carbide tip, I believe Harry Boyd has that setup, but I've been playing around with the carbide cutter inserts on my Morgan handmill. It is possible to get them almost just as sharp as regular tool steel if you use diamond grinding wheels and diamond paste to sharpen carbide. The initial sharpness may not be quite as good, but they sure hold the edge a lot longer. (Darryl Hayashida)

All I use is carbide blades. They don't get quite as sharp as steel, but still plenty sharp to cut bamboo. No nodes lifted, etc., with a well-tuned plane.

I use two planes -- a grooved plane to take me within 3-4 thousandths, and a flat soled planed for the last little bit. That's all I use -- no scrapers. I have two blades for each plane and sharpen all four blades after every rod or two. I change blades in each plane after each six strips, although it's not really necessary. Just my habit. They might literally stay sharp for several rods, if I could keep from banging them into the forms and knocking chips out of the blade. (Harry Boyd)

Are those blades carbon steel with a piece of carbide brazed to the end? If so hi-temp silver brazed? (Jerry Young)

Yes, they are standard Stanley blades which have had the tips ground off, and a matching sized piece of carbide brazed on the end. Total carbide length is about 3/8".

I cannot tell you "how" they were brazed on. I simply don't know enough about the processes. There is a distinct gold look the the brazing material, if that helps any. (Harry Boyd)

A couple points on the carbide inserts. It's my understanding that the heat from welding, brazing, etc. is harmless to carbide, as the hardness cannot be drawn out, as is the case with steel. Also, the edge chips that Harry mentioned look like the result of metal fatigue to me. I think they come from vibration of the thin edge in use, and when you start to see them, it's time to regrind. A piece of metal that is broken or torn off will show a bright surface in the break area. If you see a dull micro crystalline appearance, the culprit is most likely fatigue. Just a theory, but what are you seeing, Harry? (Tom Smithwick)

Since you're the one who got me started with this, I'll quickly defer to your experiences. I really haven't had a big enough problem with chips to remember what they look like. I think I've got one that needs regrinding though, so I'll look at it when I get home tonight and report back.

One more thing -- the 35 degree edges seem to hold up better than shallower grinds, at least for me. (Harry Boyd)

A while ago, Ted Knott posted an email about irons and mentioned he gets his made locally, by Alan Taylor. Well, being the courageous sort, and very weak in the area of sharpening planes, I purchased one. I got it from him in February and wanted to use it more before posting my thoughts, but I really haven't had time to work with it anymore, so...

The iron, as Ted said, holds it's edge very nicely. I hand split and roughed out 20 strips with the blade and continued using it right down to final dimensions, as it was still sailing thru cane. I wanted to start another rod to see how far I could go with it before sharpening, but I never got to it. Hopefully next week I will do that.

I've tried all the other blades out there, and I can honestly say that this one is as good as any and better than most. Alan will also grind the angle to your specifications. He's a nice fellow to deal with and makes a fine tool. (Mike Canazon)

Just recently met Alan this past weekend and Mike is correct in saying he is a very nice man. His tools are fabulous, and if you are in the market for a plane you should look at some of his work. No financial interest. (Robert Cristant)

I've been using one of Alan's HSS blades for a year now, and its the blade I now use for all finish planing. I've ordered a second one.

While I have planed 18 strips without sharpening, my regular practice is to plane 6 strips, then touch up the edge with the scary sharp method, then buff the edge with green compound on a rotary strop. (Ted Knott)

I will second what Ted has said. I also purchased one and it is great. I would sharpen or touch up using just a powered leather strop and the lee valley compound every 4 to 6 strips when using the Hock blades. With this one I do not have to touch up at all. Alan's blades will allow me to finish an entire rod and the blade looks better than the Hock when I am done.  They blades hold a fabulous edge. I really only use the blade for final finishing, when removing the last 10 thousandths, but I have roughed out an entire set of strips and not had to resharpen. I have tried the scary sharp method the green compound and the leather strop and even water stones and they all create a very keen edge. (Mark Babiy)

The blade in my 50 year old Stanley 9 1/2 went kaput this morning. I'm sure it was the original iron so it was due to give up the ghost anyway. I went to the Hock site and I still can't figure which iron to order for this plane. The throat is 1 5/8" wide but measuring the gap in the middle I didn't come up with any of the measurements they had listed. I naively figured prior to going to Hocks' site that it would be you need this iron for this model, this iron for this mod. etc. etc. and as usual I was wrong. If anyone uses an old Stanley 9 1/2 and could tell me which iron I need for it I would appreciate it. Also should I get the standard Hock iron or are the cryogenic irons that much better? For a carpenters' son I don't have a whole lot of smarts concerning woodworking tools. (Will Price)

I went to my local Woodcraft store with plane iron in hand. Any chance you could do that?

I have an old Craftsman, which I believe is identical to the 9 1/2, and it uses the 1 5/8" iron with a 7/16" slot. Is your old iron so broken that you couldn't send it to Hock and have them match it? Just a thought. (Neil Savage)

For a US Stanley standard angle block plane you want the 1-5/8" x 7/16" slot. Check with Golden Witch or J.D. Wagner they carry the blades. As far as the standard or A2 Cryo I use both and like them both. It just depends if you feel the A2 is worth the added bucks. Honestly the standard is probably good enough. I have five 9 1/2's all with hock blades and a Lie-Nielsen. When I'm using the Stanley’s I don't know at the time which have the A2 and the standards. I usually plane six strips with a Stanley and shave the last few thousandths with the Lie-Nielsen. Then change to a sharp Stanley for the next six. I can usually use the Lie-Nielsen for all eighteen strips before I sharpen. (Mark Heskett)

I have started putting a bevel on my plane iron and I have stopped gouging and chinking, but now I can't take off any significant thickness when planing. I worked on a strip for about 2 hours last night and still didn't get it finished. The bevel seems to keep things from getting buggered, but it has slowed my progress down to a crawl. What am I doing wrong? (Lee Orr)

How wide is the throat opening on your plane? It has to be enough to allow the shaving to pass through. If you try to take a .010" thick shaving and the throat is only open .009", it won't work right. I adjust the throat fairly wide for rough planing and then close it down for finish work (whether on rods or for general woodworking). (Neil Savage)

Another possibility is that your bevel is too steep for slicing off relatively thick shavings. With a steep blade angle, the plane acts more like a scraper & will make thin, smooth cuts without lifting nodes, but won't cut very deep.

I have two planes - one sharpened at 35 degrees for rough planing and the other at 45 degrees for final planing. Another possibility would be to sharpen your blade without the bevel for rough planing, and then resharpen with a slight bevel for finishing. (Tom Bowden)

I've received two irons from Ray Iles the other day, and the first impression are very, very good. They are 0.4 mm thicker than the Hock iron. Used a little more time to sharpen it and the edge was a bit sharper. After my roughing form I took the all the strips to 7' 9" 2/1 in the butt end of the form. Planed all the strips for the butt close to final taper and all the tip strips down to the form. All with the same iron! It was still a little bit life left. I got a groove in my plane so it saves some on the iron. Quite impressing!

Don't say you should toss out the Hock, but if somebody needs irons, it's worth to check them out. I paid £ 8 each. That’s about $14. So they are a lot cheaper than the Hock blade. Ray Iles is in England so the shipping for us Europeans are favorable. £3 to Norway for two irons. Here's a link to Rays page: Old tool store. I know this sounds like a commercial, but I just wanted to tell you about it. (Tom Simarud)

Has anybody had experience with the replacement block plane blades carried by Craftsman studio from an outfit called Academy Saws that is somewhere in Australia?

The folks at Craftsman Studio say they are better than the A2 blades provided by Hock and LN and worth the price differential.

So far all I can determine is that they are better than twice the price but I am a bit leery about a performance assessment from someone who has not planed cane with them. There is nothing in the list I can find on Academy Saw blades, but some limited stuff I found elsewhere out there in internetland indicates they have a longer lasting edge, but are harder to sharpen than A2 or O1 blades. (Joe Hudock)

Never heard of them.

That's always the trade off, though, a harder iron will hold it's edge better, but will be correspondingly more difficult to resharpen. Long ago, Stanley opted for a softer blades that are easier to resharpen. The problem is, the high silica content of bamboo dulls those softer blades more quickly.

A supper hard blade, like you describe, will require the use of diamond sharpening surfaces, and will be more prone to chipping (IE: it will be more brittle.)

As the saying goes, "you pays your money and you take your chances." (Paul Gruver)

I have never heard of them either, but a dabble in Google yields the following -

They are M2 HSS blades, made by a person called Paul Williams. There is a bit about them on a couple of addresses as found by Google, but most of interest was from

HLT Gordon
50 Northcott Crescent
Alstonville NSW 2477
Australia
Phone 016 6628 7222

Some years ago I trialed a plane iron that was made in Sydney with a 2 cm HSS insert brazed onto the tip.

Subjective I know, but to me it was not a great success. I usually sharpen with a range of 6 Japanese waterstones, and I just could not effectively sharpen these blades.

I took them off to a friend who is a toolmaker and he sharpened them for me, but while this bloke is a real perfectionist, the blades never got quite so sharp as my A2 blades, though they did appear to be pretty durable.

In my opinion, if they had a place in rodbuilding, it would be as a roughing plane insert for the gross, non-critical stuff. I guess that I was just not prepared to rework my whole sharpening system just to achieve a less effective edge .

I shall see if I can get hold of a blade to check it out, if they are not the same blades I had before. (Peter McKean)

Its funny you mentioned saving it for roughing. I saved my new Stanley blade for just that. I find that with the soaking of strips and getting it razor sharp, it holds up enough to rough 18 soaked strips. I wouldn't use it on dry strips though. I tried it out just to see what all the hoopla was about and now I see that it does sharpen fast and easy, but it dulls rather quickly and was very evident while attempting to plane non-heat treated strips. Tempered strips would wear even faster. (Scott Bearden)

I don't know them but you can't make commercial claims that are untrue here in Australia without the high risk if serious hassles from the department of lies so if they say it's harder to sharpen but holds a better edge I'd think it's probably right. (Tony Young)

I did get some additional information through the Australian dealer direct from the manufacturer. The #2 size is a drop in replacement for a Stanley #2 and they make two different ones for a 9 1/2, one to fit Records and one to fit older Stanleys. That's better than the Hock blades for a 9 1/2, which are a compromise that fit Records better but an older Stanley can benefit from some blade surgery with a Dremel, same for Veritas blades. My preference on currently available blades is for L-Ns, but I will of course grab a Hock blade for a 9 1/2 off eBay if the price is right. (Joe Hudock)