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While fishing a newly finished rod last night I had difficulty in separating the two sections when I was done fishing. I went to the tried and true behind the knees routine and the male ferrule came off the tip section as my epoxy failed to hold. I now have the male stuck in the butt section of the rod and am trying to salvage it but I can't make it budge. Any ideas out there on the list as to how to get this out. I'm sure I'm not the only one this has happened to. I guess I did not do a very good job lapping the ferrule. What bothers me is that I had no problem during several lawn casting sessions. When I do get this straightened out what is the recommendation for reapplying the ferrule to the section. I had used Devcon 2 ton epoxy, the slow drying kind. BTW the rod cast well and I was pleased with he results. It was an 8'6" 5 wt EC Powell taper that I got from the rodmakers site. I did find it to be a little heavy and my shoulder is a little sore today. (Bill Bixler) I would glue the section back in and when dry heat the female barrel slightly and pull. Having 2 people disengage a ferrule works better than the behind the knees method. If the ferrule pulls off again "pin it". (Marty DeSapio) I would try the Golfsmith epoxy. It seems to be the best holding of all the epoxies I have tried for ferrules. I wonder if this swelling is not due to water reentering the cane after a long day of fishing. I had the same problem with my 8'6" Steelhead rod two weeks ago. My hand slid down the wet rod when trying to remove the mid. Knocked off the second guide and had it sticking out of my hand while I cussed and shouted in pain. Man, that hurt. I took the whole thing home and tried it after it thoroughly dried. Used my rubber palmed Atlas work gloves, and the sections popped nicely. I have since been in the process of rewrapping and redipping the rod many more times. As far as the Powell goes, I am looking forward to building some longer ones like the one you build. Did you hollow-build it? I am still using the Powell formulae for shorter quad rods. I know it is not ideal for short rods in many people's opinions, but I tell you it works just fine. I build one, fish it, add a hinge here or there, build another, and compare. It has helped me immensely. (Bob Maulucci) I had the same thing happen to me, OUCH!!! There is this stuff they use to line cupboards, also I've seen it used for under carpets so they don't slide. It is also sold in small squares to open jars. I carry a couple of sheets if a ferrule gets a little tight. (Tom Ausfeld) This may help. Glue it back up and pin it. Then pull it apart. (Adam Vigil) Golden Witch.com sells a ferrule puller that might be a big help to you. Basically, it's a hardwood 1x2 board with different sized holes drilled in it, cut in half and hinged with a leather strap. Russ intends it to be used for removing ferrules that are stuck on sections in the process of installation, but it will work for the problem you describe. Reinstall the tip, sans glue. Use the ferrule puller to get a firm grip on the male. Pull straight out. Reinstall with Urethane Bond, Pliobond, or another good glue, and strongly consider pinning the ferrule. When you lap the ferrules, they should fit together with about the same pressure it takes to fasten your belt a notch or two tighter than is really comfortable. Many of us are so scared of fitting them too loosely that we don't remove enough material from the male slide. (Harry Boyd)
I recently used Devcon 2 ton epoxy to glue on some ferrules. Now I think I am going to have to remove the male ferrule form the tip and reset it. Will heat fatigue the epoxy without hurting the tip. I would appreciate any advice. I have never removed a ferrule glued with this type of glue. (Darin Law) Heat it very slowly and carefully if it is not turned from solid rod. Otherwise the cap will fly off at high speed and smack into whatever is in it's way with considerable force. Then you are forced to re-soldier the cap or replace the ferrule. Just take it slow and keep trying to pull it off. (Brian Creek) This won’t help now but may in the future. Epoxy is very permanent and as you know tough as hell. You might be pleasantly surprise if you try Pliobond or Ferrule-Tite. Both are super strong yet gentle when you need to remove or adjust a ferrule. Once I tried it I no longer use epoxy. In fact they both are easier to use and have a very long track record in attaching ferrules. (Adam Vigil) I've had to remove a few ferrules that were glued with Devcon 2-ton epoxy. The last couple of times I simply heated the ferrule with a heat gun and let it cool for 10 minutes or so. It slid right off with a glass-smooth finish on the epoxy, and left no trace of epoxy inside the ferrule. I've since switched to Urethane Bond, but am considering trying Pliobond because of its availability. There was some discussion about this topic several months ago if you want to check the archives. (Robert Kope) You may be surprised at how little heat is required to remove it. Heat it gently, then stick it in a cup of ice. It is scary how easily this seems to nullify epoxy's bond strength. (Jeff Schaeffer)
What is Accraglas? (John Long) It is an epoxy sold by Brownell's for use in glass bedding rifles, and any number of other things related to firearms. (Martin-Darrell) It is available in two forms, a semi liquid and a gel. They have similar but different properties. Brownells sells a book titled "Gunsmithing Kinks" that contains a chapter on documented uses for Accraglas, including repairing broken toilet bowls. (Larry Blan) I've been using Accraglas for about 4 years ever since Larry Blan turned me on to it. Ferrules can be removed with heat just like most other epoxies. (Dennis Higham)
The entire pinning debate notwithstanding, I was wondering if anybody here has had an experience with Devcon 5 minute epoxy failing on a bamboo-ferrule join? Also, I know that some use Ferrule-Tite and was wondering the same about that. In fact, I would appreciate any input on the matter and any shared experiences good or bad with different products. (Carl DiNardo) I use Devcon 2 ton epoxy most of the time, though I used Urethane bond for a while when I got some from Ray Gould. I do not pin ferrules and haven't had one fail from use yet. However, I have found that you can easily remove a ferrule that was mounted with Devcon if you simply heat the ferrule and let it cool. This completely disrupts the epoxy-metal bond, and you can just slide the ferrule off. While this is very convenient if you need to remove a ferrule, it makes me nervous about the durability of the bonds holding the ferrules on. (Robert Kope) I have had failure, that I'm sure was due to a particular batch of 5 minute epoxy. Three male ferrules on two different rods (glued up at two different times, so it wasn't a problem of mixing) came loose when disjointing the rods (and the ferrules had been fitted snug, but not tight). Since then I've used the 30 minute stuff, and lately I've been using JB weld (steel epoxy) with no problems. I have used Pliobond, and probably will go back to it - it works well. (Chris Obuchowski) I have tried them all, and I probably did not apply them all correctly, but in my experience.... 1. Gorilla Glue - worked fine but was TOO messy 2. Ferrule-Tite - messy. Needs to be pinned, and hard to apply. You can have the rest of mine, but then you wouldn't like me anymore! 3. Devcon 5 Minute Epoxy - failed once or twice. 4. Shell Epon - worked great, never failed. ***5. Golfsmith Golf Shaft Epoxy - cheaper than Epon and works great. My choice for a ferrule glue.*** 6. Slow Cure Super Glue - used all that I had from Hal Bacon. Worked great but sort of scary for a klutz like me. I just ordered up some Pro Bond from Jeff Wagner as he says on his site that he is using it now. I will try it on some demos, but I still like the Golfsmith epoxy for now. I think pinning is always the best route to go, even though I cannot say 100% of my rods have them. (Bob Maulucci) Yes on both counts, I like Accraglas Gel best (Devcon 2 ton has also failed miserably for me). (John Channer) I use Ferrule-Tite and pin. The reason being that sometime in the future someone is going to want to replace a set of ferrules on one of my rods. I know Ferrule-Tite is much easier to remove with heat than slow cure epoxy. (Marty DeSapio) I use Golfsmith shafting epoxy on ferrules and have not had a failure (15 rods over the past two years). Oddly enough, the ferrules on my first rod were glued on with ferrule cement, and then I forgot to pin them. Still waiting for it to fail, and that one gets fished a lot. Don't ever use Golfsmith on a reel seat, tip top, or anything that might have to be removed and readjusted. It is much harder to get off. Repeated cycles of heat and cold MAY do it, but I had one rod with a crooked reel seat glued with Golfsmith and never could get the thing off. Eventually the cane got so hot that I could twist it to where I wanted it, and hold it in place until it cooled. Not recommended. The only drawback to using Golfsmith is that you usually have to order it, and you will be inundated with their catalogs. This can be disconcerting if you hate golf. (Jeff Schaeffer) I have had trouble with a number of different epoxies. I have never had a problem with Urethane Bond. I have never had any trouble removing a ferrule secured by Urethane Bond. As far as pinning is concerned. I have no great urge to drill holes in my rods. On the other hand, perhaps a series of gold pins running up and down the butt section might make a statement. (Ralph Moon) We can go back and forth about this glue or that for mounting ferrules, but more important than any particular product is preparation of the surfaces. In all cases, one needs to roughen the interior of the ferrules either with a small round file or 180 grit sandpaper, followed by a good swabbing with acetone or lacquer thinner. The faces of the cane seats, too, need to be roughened and well cleaned. Then, if one wants to use an epoxy, it is an accepted rule of thumb that the longer the cure time, the stronger the bond. Our choices suddenly become demystified and easy to make. (Bill Harms) No matter what glue you use, it's important to fit the ferrules properly. I use the guidance in Ray Gould's book & try to get the fit so tight that it requires a few taps of a rubber mallet to seat the ferrule. (Tom Bowden)
I pulled the ferrule (male end) off of a 7613 yesterday. That is the second ferrule failure that I have had. I have been using 'rod bond' two part epoxy, but, now I am starting to doubt that stuff... I have too many questions as to why it failed (and no answers); bad mixing ratios, ferrule station too loose to start with (doubt it), ferrule station too tight to start with (possibly), rod bond margin for error too small (possible). Anybody have experiences in this department? A ferrule pulling off is such a pain. I would love to know why it may have failed because now, I need to reglue, rewrap, re-dip, blah blah blah, and I'll always wonder if it will fail again. (Patrick Mullen) Try Pliobond (sp). I just repaired two ferrules that I had put on a rod 3 years ago with Devcon 2-Ton epoxy. I have long since switched to the Pliobond. With any adhesive the ferrule must be clean clean clean. The fit with Pliobond must be good since you can't rely on the adhesive to fill any gaps. Put it on and let dry on both the bamboo and the ferrule then use heat to slide the two together. Bind down the tabs and let set for a day or two. Clean with MEK rewrap and be on your way. (Jerry Drake) ...and I scour the inside of the ferrule. (Timothy Troester) I had some problems with this ferrule thing too. What I do now is drill a small hole (1/16") that goes through the two walls just above the serration of the male and female ferrule, just as if you were pinning the ferrule . I apply the epoxy to the end of the strip and push the ferrule in place and let set. Excess glue seeps out of the holes and dries that way. I also dab a little left over glue on top of the hole to make sure that the hole is filled. I then sand the excess glue flush with the ferrule and I have an anchor. They never get loose that way. Make sure you sand flush as when you wrap the ferrule the relief of the hole will show through. (Michel Lajoie) Essentially a pin is created that is made of epoxy, is that correct? What brand of epoxy do you like? (Patrick Mullen) Yes that's right. I use 5 minute epoxy from Lepage.
I use Golfsmith shafting epoxy (used for gluing club heads to shafts) and have had great luck with it. Others on the list have done experiments with different glues, freezing and heating and then pulling the ferrules in a vise. The shafting epoxy rates as one of the best under those extreme tests. Further, someone like John Daly hits a golf ball at a club head speed at over 200 mph with a foot lb. impact/compression somewhere in the thousands according to the Tour Tempo book I just read. Good enough for me. My personal experience/experimentation has been in real world ambient temps of 10 degrees to over 90 degrees while yanking on 8 LB.+ trout with a five weight in the Hogpen on the Taylor River here in Colorado. No ferrule failures, but talk about a couple of tip sets! (Tom Vagell) Sadly enough, my ferrules pulled apart while I was trying to take the rod apart. It had nothing to do with catching fish... I Googled on golf shaft epoxy and found this cool article (where they talk about not enough epoxy in contact with the components) which I am thinking is the source of the problem I had. Here is the text (originally from Harrison.com): The Role of Epoxy in Installing Graphite Shafts Perhaps the most important part of club building is correctly bonding the shaft with the club head. However, some club makers make the mistake of applying epoxy to the tip of the shaft and then jamming the shaft into the club head. In doing this the epoxy is forced to the bottom of the shaft, leaving an empty countersunk chamber between the ferrule and the club head (see drawing). The purpose of filling the countersunk chamber with epoxy is to create a strong bond. However, it is crucial to remember that by jamming the shaft into the head, the purpose of using epoxy is defeated, leaving the possibility that the shaft will eventually break after repeated use. In other words, with the epoxy forced to the bottom of the shaft, it becomes almost useless. In order to ensure that there is a solid bond between shaft and head, we recommend that the epoxy-covered tip is slowly twisted into the hosel. This allows time for the epoxy to be distributed evenly without being forced up or down the club head. The epoxy then settles in the chamber, creating the necessary bond between the tip and head. In addition, it is important to carefully apply epoxy when putting weight pins in the bottom of the shaft. The epoxy should be applied to both the weight pin and the hole in the shaft in order to create the necessary bond between the pin and shaft. (Patrick Mullen)
OK, here is the issue. I have used 5 minute epoxy for ferrule attachment on my first 3 rods, but recently have been using Rod Bond epoxy for the last few (and a recent repair). Anyway, here is the question. Does Rod Bond epoxy provide a more elastic (softer - less rigid coupling) between the bamboo and ferrule than does 5 minute epoxy? My reason for the question relates to ferrule alignment after the epoxy sets and a desire to be able to use heat to break the ferrule epoxy if one needs to do a replacement. My sense from doing this, is that 5 minute epoxy gives a more rigid connection (straighter alignment) rather than Rod Bond epoxy resulting in better ferrule to ferrule alignment. (Frank Paul) I am simple. The 5 minute epoxy has not failed me yet and I can get it easily. I think I prefer the rigid bond rather than something that would flex the end of the ferrule into the rod shaft at a specific point. In my mind this would create additional stress at a single point causing likely fracturing there. (Gordon Koppin) I think the Rod Bond would be a better glue for ferrules than the 5 minute epoxy, although the reasons are different than those you state. The bond strength of Rod Bond is much stronger than that of the 5 minute epoxy. I would think it would be much more rigid, rather than less. There are dozens of different 5 minute epoxies from quite elastic to quite rigid. I don't think any of them bond well enough for ferrules and all of them will eventually fail under the stress and strain of repeated bending and joining/unjoining (is that a word?) of the ferrules. (Harry Boyd) My take on the epoxies is that the longer the set time (within limits) the stronger the bond. I would much prefer the Rod Bond to 5 minute stuff. Golf shafting epoxy would be even better. (Dewey Hildebrand) Regarding ferrule cement I'm in the camp of those using "Golfsmith Shafting Epoxy" ever since Urethane Bond became unavailable. I've also used Elmer’s "Ultimate " a polyurethane with OK results. As far as pinning ferrules goes it is entirely unnecessary in my opinion and I don't do it. It is critical to fit the bore of the ferrule tightly to the O.D. of the cane in such a way as to have to drive the ferrule onto the cane the last 3/8" or so. (Ray Gould) I'm with Ray on this one. If you have a nice slip fit between your ferrule and the bamboo, along with a ferrule to ferrule fit that makes your eyes bug out when you assemble the rod or take it down.....you have it backwards. The fit between bamboo and ferrule should be tight. Not an easy thing to do. Too tight and too loose are about .0005" apart. (Chris Raine) I've been using rod shafting epoxy for some time, and haven't had any problems. Do you have any difficulty pulling the ferrule when fitting it or before you glue it? How about the tight fit possibly starving the glue joint? I thought that epoxy needs a little more space in the glue joint than other types of glues. (Steve Weiss) That's my understanding also. If you have to force the ferrule on, there won't be much if any glue in the joint. On the other hand, you don't want TOO MUCH space either or you may have an off center ferrule. I'd think a nice easy slip fit would be about right, except possibly a bit more snug in the tab area. (Neil Savage) Neil is correct on this point. The strength of any ferrule glue-joint depends upon its ability to resist sheer forces, and for this, a film is required. In a wood-to-wood joint, epoxy will penetrate the fibers, forming a continuous film between the surfaces. But epoxy cannot penetrate metal, and without some slight space, the joint surely will be starved. Many of our glues are fine for ferrules (except those that become brittle upon curing), but the most important element is always proper preparation of the surfaces. The cane needs to be roughed, and there needs to be just enough space in the fit to allow the glue to squeeze out upon pressing. The inside of the ferrule also must be treated and thoroughly cleaned. I use a small, round file to roughen the inner surfaces, and then swab with MEK. Yes, alignment is always an issue, but with proper care you don't necessarily need to tradeoff alignment for a good glue joint. (Bill Harms) I used 2-ton epoxy, which in my opinion is much better than the 5-minute epoxy and so far have had two fail in just the last few weeks. I have fished both rods heavily but still don't feel that lasting just a little over a year is considered very good. I am redoing both with Ferrule-Tite hot glue and also pinning the ferrules, hopefully this will solve the problem. (Gary Jones) I have pinned them with a lot of preparations over the last 50 or 60 rods, and have had a few returned to me for replacement of ferrules which had slipped off, and it has led me to three conclusions: (1) be very finicky about fitting the male ferrules to the female. If that fit is perfect, there will be no need for the user to have to pull it like buggery to separate it in the first place, so you are less likely to get them back. It's also more aesthetically correct to have near-perfect ferrules (2) I now roughen the inside of the ferrules prior to gluing them on, and I also roughen and make some significant grooves in the cane ends. I use a burr in a Dremel at high speed to do these roughening jobs, and it works well and is very controllable. I used to use my dental drill, but my vet nurses all complained at having to clean out the metal filings, so I changed to the Dremel, which is better anyway. (3) I glue them on with either hot melt arrow makers glue, or, more commonly, with Acraglas Green. So far, I cannot fault the Acraglas, except that it is much harder to remove than the hot melt. But that is kind of the point of the exercise, isn't it? (Peter McKean) One of my fishing buddies is a building contractor, and he had some new stuff that is a hot melt glue, but in about a minute it catalyzes to a permanent bond. It is polyurethane based, and unfortunately the hot melt gun is expensive - about $100. It sure made a very tough tenacious glue joint. I don't think the ferrules I tried it on are ever going to come off. The unit said Hi-Pur on the side. (Darryl Hayashida) Thank you, Paul for starting the thread about getting the cane out of ferrules - if 2 Ton holds like it did on that ferrule shouldn't be any failures! A combination of everything suggested finally worked for me. I really agree with Bill Harms. As in many aspects of making, there is no substitution for thorough prep. That's why I rough up the ferrule station and inside of ferrule with jeweler's file. This has reminded me of another point that I haven't heard discussed since being on List: Sometime back there was a lot of discussion of mysterious clicking that sometimes besets ferrule sets. Various causes (and remedies) were suggested except the fact that too tight a fit on the blank side of the moisture wall may force the mating side out of whack. Russ G., in the blurb that Golden Witch sends out with their ferrule sets, cautions against this - that forcing the ferrule on the blank may throw the business end out of whack, the moisture barrier acting as a fulcrum. Since reading that I have been careful to have a comfortably snug fit - ferrule goes on (without glue) fairly easily, but not loose enough to twist. I think it's good if I have to maintain pressure when gluing ferrule on until the glue 'poots' out. Then the ferrule 'relaxes' into place and all is well. As the man said - my .02. Curious what y'all think. (Darrol Groth) I'm not sure I understand what you're describing. Does Russ say (I haven't used any of his ferrules) that if the fit is too tight then the ferrule may not seat all the way... and the click is the noise of the bamboo wiggling inside the ferrule? I guess it could happen. (Harry Boyd) One reason for clicking I have found was due to either the male or the female being out of round. One company in particular was supplying ferrules with the female wallered out on the inside of the female. After the ferrule is mounted to the rod I have solved the problem with candle wax unless someone else was going to get the rod. Personally, I would would think that if the ferrule was clicking on the bamboo side it would work itself loose. (Timothy Troester) I made a system where I can mount ferrules on my lathe. So far I have had excellent results. I just turn the station down, clean the cane with a little mineral spirits, put the ferrule in the mounting fixture in the tail stock, slather the glue on, and crank the ferrule up using the tail stock. and bind the tabs down. Depending upon the epoxy used, you can either take it out of the lathe, or do like I do and just wait for the epoxy to set before taking it out. My results:
I am NOT making these for sale, but would be more than willing to make up a drawing for you to make in your lathes. Because they are ferrule and size specific. I sent Mr. Harms and Mr. Hildebrand one of these each for the size they use the most, and from initial indications they like them. (Joe Byrd) Thanks for your comments. I also had started to use my lathe for adjusting the seating and sphericity of the bamboo and the ferrule with my last few rods. I found this approach very helpful and useful for straightness. I would like to see your fixture design for the tail stock. Thanks for your good ideas. (Frank Paul) Let's call the cane side of the ferrule side 'A' and the side meant to accommodate the Male ferrule side 'B'. What the blurb says is that forcing the blank and ferrule station into side 'A' will sometimes throw the opening in side 'B' out of whack (moisture plug acts as a 'fulcrum') thereby allowing the male ferrule to wiggle and click - however slightly. As Tim says, forcing the female opening out of round. Better? (Darrol Groth)
All this talk about Devcon epoxy has brought to light a recent problem I've just experienced. The first rod I built I used Devcon epoxy for the ferrules. On the last fishing trip the male and female ferrule separated when I was taking the rod apart. The separation was clean through the varnish and thread. The gap is only about 1/32" and when the ferrule is shoved back into place you cannot notice where it separated. I've l tried to ease the ferrules from the cane completely but they don't want to move more than the 1/32" gap. The rod is on it's third season and this is the only rod I have used epoxy on. Since then I have switched to Powerbond. Now the question is shall I use the ferrule puller and remove and replace them, or since the separation seems slight should I pin them and fish on. I appreciate any and all advice. (Mark Heskett) I've had three failures, no, I should say three rods fail with Devcon II. Actually, if you count the failed ferrules on each rod it was 8 failures. 3 ferrules on two rods, 2 ferrules on the other. It's more than embarrassing when they were on "for sale" rods. I also used to use Devcon to glue reel seats and the like. I've had those fail also. As for the repair, bite the bullet, heat the ferrule, yank 'em, and reglue. (Mike Shay) Mike says" bite the bullet, heat the ferrule, yank 'em and reglue." That is exactly what I would have said but he beat me to it. A loose ferrule is an abomination and a rod with a loose ferrule should not be used anyhow anyway. I don't know what he is using now, but either Reed Curry or Ray Gould (can't remember which it is, but I think Ray)would agree with me that Probond has never failed yet, and it requires no mysterious, arcane chants to be successful. Unfortunately it is not made now. (Ralph Moon) I've been following this thread and want to add that my first three rods were assembled using Devcon 2 ton on the ferrules and real seats, all failed. I repaired them using the golf club epoxy and made all subsequent rods (5) using same. No problems using Golfsmith epoxy (Bill Bixler)
I have been using 2 ton epoxy for the past six years on ferrules with no problems till now. Had two ferrule failures. Want to change glues, any info would be appreciated. (Tony Spezio) I haven't had any failures with Acraglas Gel in 8 years and 50 rods. (John Channer) I'll second that opinion. I use it on butt caps too. (Chad Wigham) I would have to go along with the others who use Acraglas - the green kind. I rough the inside of the ferrule sleeve using a burr, and make some discreet pits in the bamboo; for me it works very well, and we fish some extremes of temperature here, often from very hot to below freezing in the one day. (Peter McKean) I have switched to JB weld no failures yet. (Dave Henney) JB Weld has a temperature range from -34 degrees to +500 degrees. It will be awfully hard to get a ferrule off if you ever want/need to. (Neil Savage) I have been using Golfsmith shafting epoxy. It takes a long time to set which I understand in the epoxy world indicates low shrinkage. It also seems kind of 'flexible". (David Van Burgel) For the past 5 years I also have been using Golfsmith shafting epoxy. I have had only good results, no failures at all. (Robert Cristant) It's kinda funny a buddy of mine use to own a Golf pro Shop and he said he had better luck using Devcon 30 minute epoxy over using Golfsmith shafting epoxy. The only reason why I think he had better luck with Devcon was the epoxy was not exposed to cold conditions. His shop was in California. He also claimed to have tried about every epoxy out on the market and he thought Devcon was the best. Also this was about 15 years ago and maybe Golfsmith has improved it's epoxy. (Dave Henney) There have been a large number of makers post just the opposite of your buddy. First I ever heard of an experience like his. (Jerry Madigan) Multiple failures with two ton, one failure with green Acraglas, now learning to pin. (Mike Shay) Didn’t you roll your eyes at me when I told you I was pinning ferrules? and now you pin.....? I told you so HAAAAAHAAAAHAAAA! I use Ferrule-Tite sometime I pin sometimes I dont not. But I tell the person who ends up with the rod if the ferrule becomes loose or click to simple run a lighter under the ferrule and wait a few minutes. The glue soften and hardens and is good to go. Works like a charm and saves the fishing trip. You cant do that with EPOXY. (Adam Vigil) I haven't remove a ferrule but did manage to remove a butt cap that was put up with JB weld. It took me 3 days of repeated heating as far as I dared then plunging into ice water. I think I did it at least a dozen times before the bond broke. Nothing was ruined except my patience. (Dennis Aebersold) Someone mentioned using contact cement several months ago. I've been experimenting with it around the shop since then. I think I'm going to try it on the next rod. (David Bolin) I've used the Devcon 30 minute epoxy, and haven't had any problems, yet. But, when ice starts building up in the guides, I'm back by the fire! Also, if I break a sweat trying to get my waders on, I'm staying in the shade! So, I don't know what the extremes in weather will do for the ferrule adhesive on my rods. After reading what Tony wrote, "six years, two problems". I know Tony has made a bunch of rods! Two failures, that's a really low percentage to cause a change in adhesive! Some questions I have come up with: Were these failures on the first rods, last rods, together, or in-between? What was the shop's ambient temperature, when the ferrules were installed? What was the ambient temperature when they failed? How was the fit before gluing? Was it a bad batch of adhesive, or not mixed well? I guess I'm having trouble understanding why change, when something has worked good, for so long. (David Dziadosz) I will reply on list. Used Devcon 30 minute on rod # 1. Over six years and still going strong. This rod is fished a lot. One failure was on a rod I made about four years ago. Another failure was on one of my students rods that he made for a friend. All three ferrules failed on that one. That rod is about five years old and fished a lot. Devcon 30 minute originally used. I have repaired the rod as a courtesy measure, the maker was killed in an auto accident. Used Ferrule-Tite for the repairs. I was just reminded of two other failures I had forgotten about, both on rods that were only fished a couple of times. Yes, I have made quite a few rods but one failure is too much. I started out with Devcon 30 minute then changed to 2 ton when I read about failures. I can't tell you what the weather was like on all of them and what the conditions were. One rod was made on October and one was made in May, another in August. The main thing is I had failures and I feel I need to make a change. Members on the list have responded like "gangbusters" on and off list. Lots of suggestions that sound good. Seems like Pliobond is the top contender. I have used "Ferrule-Tite" a couple of times but find it a bit messy to work with. Had some "Golf Shafting" cement that I used a couple of times till the hardener set up in the container. All the others were with the Devcon products. I don't feel like I want to get into "pinning" ferrules as some have suggested. As far as some of the other glues that were recommended, I would have to mail order them as there is no place to get them on this rural area I live in. I picked up some Probond yesterday, will give it a try on these two rods unless I can find some Pliobond tomorrow. I think I want to give it a good try. This may not of answered your question as to why a change other than the Devcon has failed. (Tony Spezio) Anyone use the PowerBond stuff that Jeff Wagner recommends on his site? It is a one-part glue (looks like a polyurethane glue) used for attaching arrowheads (same use as Ferrule-Tite) but it doesn't foam/expand as much and can be broken at a lower temperature. (Rich Margiotta) I haven't tried it, but talked to Jeff about it. Sounds like great stuff. My little tubs of Acraglas [got them 4 years ago and only 1/2 used] keeps me from needing/buying it. (Chad Wigham) Jeff swears by it. AcraGlas gel has a shelf life of 10-15 years, too. (Larry Blan) I use Fasco's Steelflex 9x, no failures in two years since I switched. will pin now for more security. (Geremy Hebert) I think Jeff is a belt and suspenders type of guy and pins his ferrules as well. I use the Elmers Probond and I had one failure. When I did the post mortem on it I discovered that the glue had never kicked. Now I make sure that I dampen the ferrule station. I don’t pin. (Doug Easton) I used to be a member long ago but quit when I ran out of spare time. I found a box of spare time (not sure where I found it or even if it was addressed to me, but I opened it just the same) so I have been back on for a month or so. I have a question regarding pinning. Basically it seems to me that if the glue fails and the only thing holding on the ferrule is the pin, then the ferrule needs repairing / replacing anyway. Seems to me that the pin in this case would only allow you to keep using a loose ferrule which would increase the wear on the ferrule station. Bottom line is that I don't comprehend the need for a pin and see it as unnecessary. Now am I going off of years of experience? No, not really. While I started my first rod in '95 or '96, I've only built 16 rods, just recently starting back up again, all using Ferrule-Tite glue ( basically glue gun type glue). This (Ferrule Pinning) is just what make sense to me. If there are different explanations that can explain it so I see it in a different way then I am all ears. (Martin Jensen) Eureka! There are still those out there who think. Bravo Martin. You are right on. Also I have an inherent fear of damaging the cane itself. With all of the emphasis on never sanding off a power fiber, splitting not sawing, etc, etc we drive a huge gaping hole through the middle of the shaft. Dahh. Pinning is like using duct tape to repair your steel belted radials. (Ralph Moon) It seems to me that if you use a hot-melt glue (i.e. Ferrule-Tite), and pin the ferrule, then if the ferrule comes loose it can be repaired on the spot with a cigarette lighter, provided it's noticed right away. Otherwise, I don't see much point to pinning either. (Neil Savage) I've never had any failures after I discovered how to pin without a pin. I drill a small hole through the ferrule before assembly. I swab the bamboo with epoxy and insert the ferrule. Excess glue seep through the hole and it will never come out as the epoxy acts as an anchor. Let dry and sand down to the ferrule... take a look at the picture here.
After having built forty plus rods I can honestly say I have never known one to have a ferrule failure. I bond with slow set epoxy and to repeat what has been said previously on this issue.............. Just make sure the ferrule is a very tight fit to the cane such that the epoxy glue line is very very thin. You have to make sure that the ferrule has to be forced onto the cane to get a good fit. In my experience you don't have to pin a ferrule and what good does the pin do ? All it does is stop the ferrule flying off the cane, it will not stop a poor fitting ferrule coming loose. Conclusion is make sure the ferrule is a very tight fit to the cane before bonding and you shouldn't have any problems. (Paul Blakley) I've been using the PowerBond for about 18 months, 25 rods or so. I love it. Of course, I'm one of those belt and suspenders guys who pins his ferrules and his reel seats, too. As badly as I hate to agree with Tony M. <grin>, I want to take zero chances on ferrules and reel seats working loose. I can't prove it, but I think the pins actually help prevent glue failures by transferring some of the stress on the glue caused by assembling and disassembling the rod to the ferrule and the bamboo. In other words, pins will not allow the ferrules to wiggle at all preventing the shear stress on the glue. (Harry Boyd) I have been using Pliobond for over 10 years. Have yet to have one fail and I don't pin them. (Tim Pembroke) Pliobond is on the ACE Hardware web site. Maybe they stock it locally. Here's some more detail on the product. (David Bolin) I've also found Pliobond at "DoIt" hardware/lumber yards. (Neil Savage) Did not find any Pliobond. Did find some DAP Contact Cement. Is this the same thing? (Tony Spezio) Pliobond is an industrial contact cement. The bottle I have lists it being packaged and marketed by W.J. Ruscoe Co., 483 Kenmore Blvd, Akron, Ohio 44301 Made in the USA Pliobond T.M. Ashland, Inc. Have no idea if DAP is the same or something different? (Tim Pembroke) At my local Ace they sell both Pliobond in tube and bottle which one is best?? PS: Tony if you want some I will get you some Bottle or tube?? (Dave Henney) I'm just a beginner here, but the two rods I've made so far I used Pliobond in the bottle from my Ace Hardware. It seemed to work very well for me. I followed the instructions in one of the articles on the tips site to "flame" it on with a lighter. Worked like a charm. The best thing was that on one of the ferrules I was easily able to get it back off (because I didn't think I had it on all the way, turns out I did) by reheating it with a lighter. Being that it's winter I haven't done anything other than cast it in the gym, but it seems to be good. (Aaron Gaffney) Get the stuff in the bottle. It's easier to mix thoroughly and to apply. (Chris Obuchowski) As Chris has said the bottle is best as the stuff settles... Be Very Careful with Flames, the Flash Point is Very Low. (Dave Collyer) I have always kept a bottle around for general use. I also keep a small tube in with my leader toys. I have never noticed any settling of the variety in the tube, where it is always evident in the bottle. I've never gone to great lengths to check the tube, but it seems that at some point I would have had to have squeezed out some of the solids if they had settled out. (Larry Blan)
Which of the versions of golf shaft epoxy is everyone using. I went with the "Tour Van Shafting Epoxy". Mostly due to it being clear in color. I am taking a tube with me to my rodmaking class next week. (Doug Hall) I use the "Standard" Shafting Epoxy Shear Strength = 2850 PSI The "Tour Van Epoxy" is quick set which generally means more shrinkage and less strength. Also the standard is cheaper. (David Van Burgel) I've used Golfsmith Shafting Epoxy for some time. A word of advice, don't use it on anything you may want to take off. My experience, it only comes off with great difficulty. Long working time and takes about 24 hours to cure. (Don Schneider)
Epoxy Vs. Ferrules. I've seen it happen 3 times now. 1] The first one was a rod built in Florida that was moved to Calgary, Alberta. The owner of the rod hang it from the tip section in his fly shop. The male ferrule glue gave out and the rod dropped to the floor. 2] These 2 happened to me. I used epoxy as a ferrule glue. The rod was used in a wetter area of Canada for several years. The rod owner broke a tip and I got it back for repair. Reset tip top and cleaned it up. Left one tip section and the butt section in the "drying" cabinet @ 100F for a couple of weeks to completely dry th varnish. Was packing up the sections for shipment yesterday and decided to check the ferrule fit. Both the tip and butt ferrules slipped on the cane when disassembled. Looks like the problem is the same both times. The cane shrank pulling the epoxy glue from the ferrule. I know I've had cane swell making ferrule fit a moving target and now this. Any one else experience such an instance as the three I've seen? And the heat>cold>heat>cold etc. worked fine to remove the last ferrule. All ferrules are now glued with Probond. (Don Anderson) I have had problems with "store brand" epoxy for ferrules but have had no problems with "Golfsmith shafting epoxy." (David Van Burgel) I use Golfsmith shafting epoxy, and it's all I've used since completing my first rod about six years ago. That rod is a real beater and I have badly abused it over the years and the ferrules are about the only thing that didn't go wrong with it. I've wondered though, that since I'm in Colorado where it's fairly dry, how the stuff responds to humid areas like Maine where you are. Your success with it there gives me stronger confirmation about using it. My buddy makes golf clubs, including those really long oversize drivers that they use in long drive competitions. I've hit one of those drivers, doing a "Happy Gilmore" type of swing - including driving it into the tee box at a full gallop! I realize the bonding properties between graphite club shafts and bamboo are not the same, or is the expansion/contraction rate in varying humidity and temperatures. HOWEVER...I have pictures of my buddy hitting one of those drivers, and the tremendous arc that is put into a 52" shaft that is super fat at the top and probably only .325 or smaller at the hosel joint - coupled with club head impact at over 125 MPH - well, that's good enough for me. Also, I've stupidly over cut male ferrules more than once, and it's a bear to get them off the blank. It takes a hell of a lot of heat. (Tom Vagell) I use the Golfshafting epoxy for ferrules up here in Michigan & we get more precipitation that they get in Seattle Washington & I have never had a failure of the ferrules on any rod. (Bret Reiter) I have never been able to find golf shaft epoxy here down under, but have always used Acraglas Green after a few early disasters with proprietary epoxies from the hardware store, and as Long as I rough up both the inside of the ferrule and the ferrule station I have no trouble at all. They are a real affliction to remove, though; only seems practical to do it with alternating heat and cold, because using heat alone you would destroy the cane and the bond together. As an aside, the last time I removed one I happened to have a flask of liquid nitrogen on hand that was surplus to requirement, and that made the whole process just so much easier, quicker and demanding of less heat! (Peter McKean) I used Golfsmith for a while, and never had a problem. Then I repaired an original Para-15 that needed a replacement tip. I wanted to use the original hardware, and had an impossible time getting the male off the blank. It took most of an evening. Once I got it off I realized that it had been glued on with Pliobond. I switched immediately thereafter. Available locally, cheap, fast setting if you flame it, and you won't get dozens of golfing catalogs in the mail after buying it. (Jeff Schaeffer) I have had some rods that I have picked up from some of the guys out there & some have been glued with the Pliobond. I have had 3 ferrules pull off on thjose rods. i reset them with the golf epoxy. (Bret Reiter) I use Weldwood flammable contact cement because it has succeeded for me in many tough applications where Pliobond has failed. But the correct technique is important and the fit between cane and ferrule must be fairly tight. Contact cement never really gets hard and brittle and ferrules are reasonably easy to remove. The only one failure I've had was where my fit was a bit loose. And then it failed after many years of use in dry Montana. Pliobond is great for coating knots and splices. I did a repair job last year on a rod with loose fitting ferrules. I used Gorilla glue to fill the gap, and no complaints so far. (Bill Fink) The issue is moisture content in the bamboo and the lack of elasticity of epoxy. Temperature changes are way less of a problem (about 100X less) The moisture content of bamboo will be about 4 to 6% depending on where you live and time of year and how much time it has had to adjust to a change in humidity. When you dry it out in an oven for two weeks you bring the moisture content to near zero. This will cause the bamboo to shrink about 0.008 inches at at typical midsection ferrule (0.200 diameter). This represents a huge gap if the glue doesn't stretch to accommodate it. Most epoxies can't. Most any glue can't. But this represents an extreme. But you get the picture. The opposite is also a problem. If you've baked your strips, glued them and heat set them, your rod section is near zero moisture content. If you immediately fit your ferrules, the bamboo hasn't had time to absorb ambient moisture so it starts to swell and expand your male ferrule. It won't expand 0.008 inch because the ferrule restrains it, but from experience you know it expands enough to cause a fit problem. To get around it, you need to let your section sit about a week before fitting ferrules Pliobond and similar flexible glues "accommodate" the expansion and contraction due to moisture changes. (Al Baldauski) Thanks for your responses. Looks like I'll have to look into an alternative glue again. Here I thought that I'd finally got a glue that I could get locally without offending the Transportation Gods. Took some readings this morning while in the shop. Shop temp was 64F - Humidity @ 54% Drying cabinet 84F - Humidity 36% Failed ferrules were in the drying cabinet for 2 weeks or so. Sure explains the "shrink" problem. (Don Anderson)
I remember a discussion in the past where it was put forth that the epoxy used for golf club heads was one of the best to ferrule with. I usually use a PU glue, but thought I'd check and see if anything better has been suggested or come up with. (Bill Walters) I've been using U40 Rod Bond for a number of years now. M-D suggested it to me years ago, and I've been using it ever since. It's a thixotropic epoxy that was designed for install hardware on rods. Very thick, won't run, and doesn't take as much heat to break the bond as the golf shaft epoxy. (Mark Wendt) Devcon 2 Ton here - as per George Maurer suggestion. No failures but hell to get unstuck. This might be a good candidate for one of David's straw votes. (Darrol Groth) I use Devcon 2 ton as well but it is getting hard to find around here. (Timothy Troester) I think epoxies are too good at holding ferrules. If you have to do a repair it's almost impossible to remove a ferrule without damaging the blank. (That's if you glue it properly) I use Stik'n Seal now. It holds great but melts easily with heat for easy removal. (Ken Paterson) The U40 sticks really well, and it doesn't require as much heat as the Devcon, golf shaft or Acraglas epoxies to soften. It's purpose, designed for mounting fishin' pole hardware. Devcon is an all purpose adhesive, kind of a jack of all trades, master of none thing. Golf shaft epoxy is purpose designed to adhere golf club heads to the shafts, and to resist impact and torsional forces. Acraglas epoxy is designed for bedding rifle barrels. (Mark Wendt) It's purpose, designed for mounting fishin' pole hardware. And that being said, why not use what is designed to do the job? Of all the rods I have made, I have used U40 Rod Bond and I only had 1 failure, when I took the ferrule off to reseat it, I could plainly see that I forgot to clean it! (Joe Arguello) Araldite slow setting epoxy for me. I think slow setting epoxies are good because they remain a bit flexible. Fast-setting ones get brittle. (Steve Dugmore) Same here, Araldite regular, slow set. (Paul Blakley) I personally like Golfsmith Shafting Epoxy. I figure any epoxy that can join two or more dissimilar materials - like graphite to steel, aluminum, titanium, etc. and suffer club head speeds and impact at up 145 mph, AND fluctuating temperature extremes and rain is ideal for rods. A club head hozzle isn't very deep either - similar to a ferrule. It also has a great shelf life, I have some that is at least four years old that is still good, although I have since replaced it. They did change the color from what was a nice matching bamboo shade to black, but that just forced me to be more fastidious about cleanup. I have no idea how hard it is to remove a ferrule glued with this stuff, I have never done it. (Tom Vagell) I've been using this stuff. With no failures so far. One of our students at the Catskills rodmaking school works for the company and told me about it (no financial interest ). I wish it was bamboo color. (David Van Burgel) Shafting epoxy would have been/is great stuff, except that: - only comes in black - don't think it expands to any great extent (Steve Yasgur) The answer is PLIOBOND, easy to use, and easy to remove ferrule for repairs. Holds like the devil ----- please do not scream about setting you rod on fire ------ flaming off the Plio will not do a damn thing to your rod. You need to warm the ferrule which has been coated with plio on the id, bubbling off or a small flame the solvents evaporate then push it home. You do the ferrule station after the ferrule, when flame dies on the rod section then push home ----- as the ferrule will retain the warmth, they slide together nicely ---- you're done. I wrap the tabs tightly and let it sit till next day. The bonus to all this is in cold weather your ferrules won't loosen ----and for removal some heat and a twisting motion the ferrule will come off. Pliobond is great for ferrules. (James (JED) Dempsey) Dead on!!!! Pliobond is it for me. You know instantly if the bond is good. Just like any contact cement. Let it skin over stick it together and bam, its done. Flame just helps get rid of the solvents faster. Never burned a rod, never pulled a ferrule off yet. Of course, just like any other rod building step, there are multiple ways to glue up the ferules. You won't get total agreement on any of them. (Pete Emmel) Does anyone have the method for doing it with Pliobond? I remember that there is a specific way to do it. (Bill Walters) I have been using the golf club epoxy and can say that I have no failures using it. However, I have never tried to take a ferrule off so I can't tell you how difficult that would be. (Bill Bixler) The first thing I do is clean inside ferrules really good, scratch it up some with steel wool or paper on a small drill. Clean well and wash inside with Dawn detergent and dry. I then smear a few drops of Pliobond on the inside, making sure it is well covered, smear it on ferrule station also. Let it sit a minute or two, add a bit more to ferrule station. Use a torch or whatever heat source and warm the ferrule till you see the plio bubbling or a small flame out top of ferrule. Be careful as a little heat will do, you are just trying to flash off the solvents and warm the glue good. Now the part most people freak at ---- why I don't know ! The ferrule station which we coated with Pliobond ---- hit it with the torch, flame whatever. This burns off solvents in a second or two, soon as the flame is out shove it into the ferrule, aligning it as you wish for the serrations. Then I bind the tabs good and let sit overnight ---- probably don't have to but I still do. Remember ---- warming the ferrule and flaming off the ferrule station must be done quickly you want that ferrule pretty warm, basically at the same time. Burning off the solvents is critical to this, and must be done, it will not harm your rod at all More harm in heating to remove a epoxied ferrule! Caution ---- the solvents in Pliobond (mek) flash off easily, make sure the tube/bottle is away from open flame. Wear gloves ----- the ferrule is hot. It is harder to put into words than actually do ---- quite easy to use Pliobond. Again, probably 12 different glues and methods to install ferrules. I have used epoxy and am back to Pliobond, which I wish I never stopped using. If you have trouble pushing it home most likely it has cooled to much or to much glue. Just warm with torch/flame and pull it off! Clean it off and start again. Pliobond holds like the devil and is real good in cold weather. Overall a better ferrule adhesive than most. (James (JED) Dempsey) I don't know why anyone would be afraid of flaming off a little Pliobond solvent on a ferrule station. Just look at what some do to their bamboo culm during flaming! I like Pliobond for ferrules. I like the option of being able to get the ferrule off if need be. One little word of warning if you are removing a ferrule that was originally installed with Pliobond though. Don't stand in the line of fire when heating the ferrule. I've had a couple shoot off with a bang and hit the wall. You work on it and work on it and it suddenly lets go. Not as loud as a .22 short but it'll wake ya up. (Larry Swearingen) I have tried it a couple of times, what I find is the mess to clean up around the ferrule tabs. What do you do about this. If an easy way can be used, I would consider using it again. It might be that I had too much Pliobond, I had to spend too much time cleaning up in between the tabs. With the Golf Shaft Epoxy I am using (till I run out of clear), it just takes a few wipes with Denatured Alcohol to clean the area before binding the tabs. Very little to clean up after the Epoxy is set. Will you be making the SRG next month a demo on this might be in order. (Tony Spezio) I agree, like translucent wraps on ferrules so I like to clean the glue. How is excess Pliobond removed? (David Van Burgel) MEK easily removes excess Pliobond. I suspect that acetone would as well. (Steve Shelton) 0000 steel wool and acetone cleans it up nicely. (Dennis Higham) I use acetone. (Hal Manas) Perhaps the best method is to use MEK, nasty as it is. I'm old school and do not do translucent wraps, I favor Gillum, Halstead, and Payne earth tone colors I use my own mix of Dewaxed Shellac so if there is a bit of Pliobond, or whatever adhesive in between the serrations no big deal as it is never seen and has no effect at all. (James (JED) Dempsey) I also use dewaxed shellac for my first few coats and then varnish. 4-6 coats. Lots of guys think that shellac sucks, but you need to use the dewaxed form. Hal Bacon told us at the Catskill gathering a few years back that you can skim off the clear fluid from a Zinsser's pre mixed clear shellac and use it thinned with a little alcohol. Strangely it works. Hal said that Jim Payne always used Shellac as a base coat. It darkens the thread but leaves it a bit lighter than just varnishing. I don't do it on all my rods and restorations but it comes in handy when you want a particular shade. (Doug Easton) I do translucent ferrule wraps so it would concern me. I will give it another shot on the next rod. (Tony Spezio) Tell me, are you talking about removing the Pliobond before or after it dries? With the Acraglas that I use , cleaning the dried glue off after I remove the binding can be a bit tough; but I seem to have solved the problem by using a steel brush wheel on my Dremel. I have to touch up the blue finish with a bit more TruBlu on a Q-tip, but apart from that it does a very tidy job. I bind the tabs with fine fuse wire, so quite a lot of excess glue comes off with the wire, which helps a lot. When the Pliobond dries, is it hard and brittle (?) like Acraglas or is it more tacky? (Peter McKean) Yes I am talking about when it had dried. Mainly removing the dry residual glue between the tabs. (Tony Spezio) When the Pliobond dries, is it hard and brittle (?) like Acraglas or is it more tacky? It is basically a contact cement, so it stays flexible. I don't believe you could ever chip it off. (Pete Emmel)
I wanted to try some golf club 'head to shaft' epoxy I have been reading about, so I asked our local golf shop for a sample to try on a tip section I am finishing. They still have / make the version that dries clear. (Doug Hall) So, I just got off the phone here in Arizona with the local Golfsmith store. They said the clear dries in an hour & the shear strength is not as strong as the black that cures in 18 hours. So, are you taking a chance of ferrule installation failure due to this fact? I know I would not use 1-hour epoxy from Devcon on my ferrules. I use this for reel seats only. But, how about the old style ferrule cement out there for ferrules? (Bret Reiter) I think it has more to do with the adhesion than the shear strength of the actual epoxy. If you can't produce enough shear force to exceed the shear strength, then a stronger epoxy makes no difference. (John Smith) So, back to what I said about the old heat melt ferrule cement. Does this have enough shear strength to secure the ferrules sufficiently to not cause a failure? I wish I had paid better attention to what Bernard Hills & Heddon used for ferrule cement. (Bret Reiter) Enough shear strength? Yes, I believe it would have enough to do the job under normal circumstances. I have come to believe that the key is fitting the ferrules PROPERLY. This is a slow, tedious bloody Donald Duck procedure, but if done properly ferrule separation is a smooth and easy action, and just does not require glues of amazing potency. Conversely, should the rod user allow the ferrules to become dirty, corroded or otherwise full of crap and mullock, then no glue on the planet will hold it, or possibly may hold it so well that separation attempts may damage the bamboo. For a long time, I went to a little bit of trouble to get Acraglas Green; I now use the same epoxy that secures the rod, and that works fine. I DO, however, keep the crap out of the ferrules and I DO pull straight when separating them. My best advice is that the time is better spent on the ferrule fit than on the glue that secures them. (Peter McKean) This is hearsay; I'm only mentioning it because it's just possible that it's correct but it may not.I have read that the chemicals used in the fast cure epoxy react badly with copper in such a way that the bond is not as good as if slow set epoxy was used. The problem isn't in the cured epoxy, the issue arises while the epoxy is still liquid, the bond is not as complete and fails after a time when cured.Please refer to my opening sentence however. (Tony Young) When Golfsmith changed to the black epoxy I switched to shafting epoxy from Brampton Technologies. I've been using their Pro-Fix 20/20 long cure epoxy for a few years now without any failures. As with most things these days to can find it on Amazon.com (Jim Brandt) Good to know. I was not too enamored to learn it cured to black. Pro-Fix 20/20 may be the best way to go. (Don Smith)
Does anyone have anything good or bad to say about Nyatex for gluing ferrules?... Thanks in advance. (Doug Hojem) I use Nyatex for gluing up splines then heat setting the epoxy. I like the stuff a lot. Never used it for ferrules though. (Mike Arnold) Try Jerry Drake (fishbum) on the classic fly rod forum. He has been using Nyatex for quite awhile for all sorts of things and makes his own ferrules. I expect he could give you the low down. (Chris Moore) I do use Nyatex to do some pretty neat repairs but have never tried it to attach ferrules. I use Pliobond for ferrules and never saw any reason to look for anything else. (Jerry Drake) I’ve been using Nyatex since I started making rods and I’ve made and sold quite a few. Nyatex is great for putting the rod together and it holding. I’ve never, ever had a problem with delamination or anything like that. I think that to use it for ferrules would be a very big mistake in that if you should ever need to replace said ferrule, you’ll be hard pressed to get the damn thing off the rod. Nyatex is virtually bullet proof. Once it’s on and the rod has been heat treated, it ain’t coming apart, period!! (Ren Monllor) It would be possible to remove a ferrule by the application of heat. Rods glued with Nyatex can be delaminated with the application of heat. (Jerry Drake) If you use Nyatex to glue your rod joints and want to use it to attach ferrules, you may consider heat setting the rod at the upper available temperature range for the epoxy and heat set the ferrule attachment at the extreme lower range if at all providing the maximum separation in the glass transition temperatures of each bondline. This would provide some protection for the rod against heat delam if you needed to heat the ferrule to remove. (Gary Young) I stopped using epoxy on ferrules for the same reason. If glued properly its almost impossible to remove a ferrule with heat without destroying the cane in the ferrule. I use Lepages Stik N'Seal now. (Ken Paterson) The best thing to use is golf shaft epoxy from Golfsmith. (Doug Hall) I'll second Doug's recommendation. The reason I would point to is the viscosity When gluing rods, I like the lighter weight of the Nyatex looking for a thinner body that penetrates deeper and closes between the strips tightly. However, when mounting ferrules, I prefer a heavier body non shrinking glue. Again, individual mileage may vary. (Wayne Cattanach) While I am very satisfied with Nyatex for rod building (in fact I use it exclusively), the response I got regarding its use for ferrule installation was that using Nyatex on the ferrules would result in a bond that could never be undone in the event I needed to put on a new ferrule or fix one. Someone recommended U-40 for ferrules and that is what I use. It is a little messy to work with, but it does a fine job. (Doug Hojem)
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