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Rule

I know this subject has been beaten to death on this list, but I am at a loss of what happened and am asking for any suggestions. On my last rod both female ferrules became unattached from the bamboo. A 3 piece 5 wt, similar in taper to a Payne 101. The lower Ferrule became completely loose while the tip ferrule only showed signs of coming loose. I had fished the rod for almost one year prior to this. The day I noticed the bottom ferrule coming loose, I had fished for about 4 hours. I have been using the Ferrule-Tight hot melt glue, and prior to this I have experienced no problems. The glue seemed to stick to the ferrule and not the bamboo, but to be honest the glue joint looked a bit starved of glue.

Is there a shelf life to the stick?

What is the best practice of applying a ferrule using the hot melt glue?  (Taylor Hogan)

    Any chance that rod was stored in a hot automobile for a few hours before you started fishing?  That might explain the glue letting go.  Also, your mention that the glue was stuck to the metal rather than the cane makes me wonder if you hadn't applied some sort of finish, perhaps tung oil, to the rod section before ferruling.

    My best guess is that the ferrules were fitted rather tight.  In the process of breaking down the rod, the ferrules came loose from the cane rather than  each  other.   Although  I  don't  use Ferrule-Tight, others have said that Ferrule-Tight really ought to be backed up by pinning the ferrules.  That probably would have prevented the pull-off.  (Harry Boyd)

      Well yes the tube and rod where in the car. It probably did get hot on the way to the lake, but... I had fished for hours before it came completely loose, and prior to that I had done the same thing for days. There was no finish on the rod prior to gluing.

      To be honest I have lost my love for Ferrule-Tite. I think I will try one of the other glues suggested by members of the list. This will also give me a chance to rewrap my ferrules, something I was never proud of.

      To all those members who live near Yellowstone or fish the vast number of rivers in the environs. You truly are blessed with some wonderful trout streams. I had the opportunity to fish for about 10 days in that area.  (Taylor Hogan)

    The best practice with the hot melt glue is to leave it on your shelf. Instead, use either  a  golf  club  "shafting"  epoxy  or "Accraglas" epoxy from Brownells.  But, in all cases, clean both the inside of the ferrule and the prepared station on your blanks with acetone, lacquer thinner or MEK..

    Some fellows claim it is nearly impossible to starve a glue joint with the fitted ferrule, but I do not believe that. I think it is both possible and likely that we starve the joint when we strive for the perfect, press fit. (Bill Harms)

      I clean the insides of my ferrules with an aerosol can of brake cleaner from an auto store. It is used to clean the disassembled brake before putting on the new shoes. It comes with a straw like WD40 you can stick right in and squirt under pressure. I then dry it off with air (primitive method of straw in mouth and blow)  (Dave Norling)

Rule

While fitting some ferrules tonight, I had a male pull off.  It was glued with Urethane Bond, but honestly I hadn't given the glue enough time to set.  Rather than wait another day to work on that particular ferrule, I decided to glue it back with Ferrule-Tite, and pin the ferrule.

there simply must be an easier way to work with Ferrule-Tite than I have found.  I must have worked an hour trying to get that ferrule back on the rod.  I heated the glue stick, and smeared a few globs on the bamboo.  Heated the ferrule and pushed it home.  Trouble was, those globs stopped me half a dozen times.  Finally melted the globs down into a neat coat and made it work.... but the serrations on the ferrule stood out like an umbrella.  Scraped and hammered and cussed and did all kinds of foul things before I finally got them to stay down.

I seem to remember someone asking a similar question recently, but don't remember seeing any answers.  Any suggestions you might offer will be appreciated.  (Harry Boyd)

PS.... Red fly tying wire will burn in the flame from an alcohol lamp.  Wanna guess how I  learned that one?

    I use a long bodkin heated in the alcohol lamp and first put a thin coat inside the ferrule.  Put a little on the rod and thin it out using a "bubble buster" alcohol burner that will give you a pin point flame.  Doesn't take much heat, then I set it with the end stock in the lathe.

    Reuse the pin point flame to heat up the tabs. Clean them off with a rag and wrap some thin copper wire.  (Jerry Young)

    I have never ran into a problem with Ferrule-Tite. I  heat the glue stick over a heat gun until molten and smear it on the station not missing a spot. I heat the station and ferrule and start the ferrule. I again heat the ferrule and slowly push it home. I use my fingers to roll the serrations flat while still hot but not to hot(I have mason hands) followed by a slight pinching with flat needle nose pliers.  (Marty DeSapio)

    This is how I use Ferrule-Tite:

    Using a razor blade, shave off a little bit of glue from the stick and put it in the ferrule, and make sure the tabs are straight or bent out a little - anything but crimped in. Tell you why later. I have a heat gun that can sit on its end while it's on. Glue stick in one hand and blank in the other, start heating the glue stick first for about 10 to 15 seconds, then heat the end of the section, heating both at the same time. When they are at the right temperature, and I guess only experience can tell you what that is, smear the glue on the bamboo. It's best to be doing this on a few layers of newspaper. Slide the blank into the ferrule with easy pressure until it stops, and since the ferrule is cold the section will not go all the way in. Holding the bamboo section, heat the ferrule over the heat gun, and seat it all the way in. If the ferrule is at the right temperature the tabs will not mushroom out, and you should see a bit of squeeze out from between the tabs - the little sliver of glue you put in before, and some fairly large globs of glue at the ends of the tabs. That's all right unless your tabs are crimped in. If they are they scrape off the glue and there won't be enough glue between the ferrule and bamboo. Let it cool - you can get it at just the right temperature where you can peel off the glue globs around the tabs with your thumbnail as it cools. If not, a razor blade trims it right off. Using iron binding wire (from my jewelry soldering days) or clean small gauge copper wire - not the varnish coated stuff, wrap a few turns around the tabs and heat the ferrule. That sets the tabs flat to the bamboo. If you use the varnish coated copper wire the varnish will melt and stick to your tabs.

    I don't pin my ferrules, and I haven't had a ferrule let go yet. I think the key to using hot melt glue is heating the bamboo also. I have tried just heating the glue and smearing it on cold (room temp) bamboo and it peels right off. Heat the bamboo first and nothing can get the glue off. I also haven't had a ferrule loosen on me yet, but I think that if it does happen all I will have to do is heat the ferrule a bit and it will be fine.  (Darryl Hayashida)

      I do something similar except I heat the glue, smear on bamboo and then reheat on the bamboo.    I also have not had one come off (yet).  (Rob Clarke)

    Some things I do other than what's already been discussed is:

    Cutting channels (two) in the ferrule station for excess glue to escape.

    When the ferrule is about half way engaged, I twist it to further insure that glue is spread on all inside surfaces.

    I tend to crimp my ferrule tabs in so they seat tight against the station, but I also put enough glue inside the ferrule that I don't starve the joint.  Plenty of excess glue is forced out through the channels and at the tab slots to ensure this. 

    I place a layer of tape at the point on the blank where the ferrule station ends, so that the excess glue is easily removed with the tape when finished and doesn't adhere out onto the blank.

    I heat up the tab area glue (very carefully) and manually wrap some binding thread over the ends of the tabs to pinch them to the blank if necessary.  (Chris McDowell)

Rule

It never fails! Just get moving a little too fast and the next thing you know you do something dumb. I finally got tired of trying to find a local source of Pliobond or Golf shaft epoxy so I decided to finally give that stick of Ferr-L-Tite that I bought a couple months ago a try. All the messages on the list had me totally wallowing in doubt as to the best glue to use and how to apply it, etc. Then the other day I remembered how I had gone through the same agonizing when I first started building gr---ite rods. I read all those messages about the trouble folks were having with Flexcoat on wrappings. Some couldn't get the bubbles out, others couldn't get it to set up, and yet more used too much without a turning motor and it ran all over the place. I finally gave up and did it following the instructions and it worked fine. And now the same thing was happening with the ferrules. So I decided to finally stop thinking about it and do it! I heated the bamboo shaft and dribbled a little Ferr-L-Tite on it. Then I tossed a few glue shavings into the ferrule and heated it up while continuing to heat the bamboo shaft enough to prevent the glue from solidifying (imagine me trying to do both of these at the same time over a catalytic heating tip on my Portosol butane torch, without barbecuing my fingers--quite a trick). Then I shoved the ferrule on and pushed it home as fast as I could. Once the glue cooled I rubbed the extra glue off by rolling it in my fingers and I was done.

Both ferrules are now on good and tight--so what am I complaining about? Tonight as I was playing with the rod and admiring the neat job I had done, I suddenly realized that I still needed to install the grip and even worse the GW  broad winding check -- but would they fit over the female ferrule. The answer of course is no way! So now I have to heat that ferrule up again and pull it, then install the grip and winding check, then reinstall the ferrule. Like I said, haste makes waste, but at least I remembered the winding check before I started installing guides!  (Larry Puckett)

    That is good glue. Good thing it was not epoxy or you would be really hating life when you tried to remove it. I just bought 3 bottles of Pliobond it is getting really hard to find. It to is a great ferrule glue when applied correctly.

    Here is how I learned to do it, Credit goes to Chris Lucker: 

    For ferrules use Pliobond -- not contact cement.

    Apply Pliobond to both surfaces -- ferrule and cane at ferrule station.  Don't use too much.  A thin coat is all you need.  Allow to dry to the touch.  Heat ferrule with alcohol lamp.  Quickly seat ferrule as you would if you were simply using ferrule cement. 

    Pliobond will remain pliable for as long as two days after seating.  In other words, you will be able to move the ferrule slightly for at least a day after seating.  But after that, it's stuck until you apply the alcohol lamp again.

    By the way, Pliobond is the only glue I have found that will positively seat the aluminum ferrules as used on a real Paul Young Midge.  Paul Young Rod Company used Pliobond and probably still does.  (Adam Vigil)

    I bet you think you're the first person that has happened to.  I've often wondered why a lot of rods you see, don't have a winding check. I try to put enough of a swell in the butt that the winding check is big enough to slip over the ferrule. But, sometimes, I fail to look far enough ahead. Once when I was trying to remove a ferrule the epoxy would not let go, so I kept applying more heat till the end of the rod exploded and shot the ferrule off. I haven't found it yet! It's somewhere in the basement and probably won't be found until I move. So, you came out better than you think you did.  (David Dziadosz)

Rule

Well, my first experience with Ferrule-Tite has not been all that encouraging. After reading the series of messages that transpired here a month or two ago I proceeded to heat the ends of the blanks and dribble and smear Ferrule-Tite on them. Then I put a bunch of Ferrule-Tite cuttings in the ferrules themselves and heated them to melt it and at the same time I reheated the glue on the blanks. While all this was still hot and runny I slid the ferrules onto the stations and pushed them home, forcing out the excess glue in the process. These have now been sitting about a month while I've worked on getting the guides, silk, varnish, etc. ready for the final job. Last night I was giving the rod another test fitting of the ferrules and giving it a few good wiggles when I noticed that the female ferrule seemed loose. Sure enough it was so loose it slid right off! OK, now that I don't trust this stuff to hold worth a darn, what's the best way to remove Ferrule-Tite so I can replace it with golf shafting epoxy?  (Larry Puckett)

    Did you clean the inside of the ferrule with solvent (alcohol, lacquer thinner, etc.) before gluing with Ferrule-Tite. The ferrule stations  should be cut tight to the inside diameter of the ferrule for success. To remove the stuff, heat the ferrule and clean it out with an ear swab followed by an ear swab saturated in lacquer thinner.  (Marty DeSapio)

    Not sure, but I think I was the one who started the Ferrule tite discussion a few weeks back.  I stuck with it, and aided with list members advice, have decided that it's a fine glue for ferrules.  My main reason for sticking with FT is it's so quick to use.  I spend about 30 minutes cutting the ferrule stations to size with Brad Love's ferrule cutters.  While the section is still in the lathe, I scratch a coupla tiny channels in the ferrule station to give any air an escape route.  Then I spend another 30 minutes ferruling the entire 3/2 blank.

    Marty is correct, the fit needs to be tight, and the ferrule must be squeaky clean.  What's a tight fit?  Well, I want to be able to twist the ferrule on the station, but only with some effort.  I often have to resort to the ferrule puller that Golden Witch sells to move the ferrule.  Also, I pay special attention to the part of the ferrule station that will be under the ferrule tabs.  I make sure the dry fit ferrule doesn't have the tabs forced up.  Sometimes I used to worry so much about the slide portion of the ferrule that I didn't give enough attention to what happens under the tabs.  If the ferrule fits correctly dry, it will do so when glued.

    Other than that my chief advice would be to spend a little while experimenting with heating times and temps, getting a good even coat over the entire ferrule station.  I don't dribble glue into the ferrule itself.  If the ferrule station is coated, I think glue in the ferrule is just something else to squeeze out. 

    I just ordered ferrules, and included a request for a couple more sticks of Ferrule-Tite.  For me, that should be a lifetime supply.  (Harry Boyd)

    PS -- I DO pin my ferrules.

Rule

I've seen on the list several references to using Ferrule-Tite hot melt or liquid Fletch-Tite to install nickel silver ferrules, especially where the rod will used in cold temperatures.  Any thoughts on their use, comparison to epoxy, clean up if any?  (Ted Knott)

    Ferrule-Tite - yes; Fletch-Tite - no. (Ron Grantham)

    I've had good luck with Weldwood FLAMMABLE Contact Cement. After overnight drying, I insert the cane into the ferrules with just a bit of warmth. This cement stays flexible and seems to survive ice-on-guides conditions just fine.  (Bill Fink)

Rule

Is the hot melt glue for ferrules you guys refer to the same stuff as you use in an electric glue gun? i.e. the sticks of glue wiring is sometimes attached to walls with?  (Stephen Dugmore)

    The stuff for glue gun applications is to brittle and has poor adhesion. What you want is ferule cement or tip top cement. GUDEBROD ferrule cement seems to be the standard. It is very tacky and has a bit of flexibility when set up. I have used it a lot on restorations with no failures that I can remember.  (Doug Easton)

Rule

Ferrule-Tite users.  I was at the sporting goods store and so I picked up some Ferrule-Tite because I am going to put a ferrule on a rod tomorrow and I remembered reading that this is good.  I have been using Pliobond with good results, but I just thought I'd give this stuff a try.  Now that I have it the instructions don't look like what I need for bamboo.  How do you use it?  Could someone please send me a step by step guide?  If I don't hear, I'll just use Pliobond until I find out how to use Ferrule-Tite.  (Hal Manas)

    Push some of the adhesive out of the end of the cardboard sleeve. Heat the adhesive with an alcohol lamp or a lighter till it becomes liquid and smear it on the rod shaft. The heat the ferrule and the rod shaft where the adhesive is located till it becomes fluid again and at the same time get the ferrule hot. Then push the ferrule onto the rod shaft quickly rotating it a bit to be sure the glue is spread all the way around the rod shaft surface. Then cool the ferrule. After it is cooled off remove any excess cement at the end of the ferrule.

    As far as I can tell this cement is the same stuff Pflueger used to sell. It was called Pflueger No. 284. The advantage of this adhesive is that it is easy to remove the ferrule afterwards by reheating. The disadvantage is that it gets brittle with age and the ferrules come loose. I've repaired many, many older rods with loose ferrule installed with that type cement. For me, I'm going to stick with Golfsmith Shafting Epoxy, it works just fine.  (Ray Gould)

Rule

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