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Thanks everyone for all the info and links to the Bevelers. Now a couple of questions for those that use them.

I take it that the ones with the "V" bit only require 1 pass to rough them in. One adjustment as to depth then run a bunch through, then change for the tips and run the next batch?

On the ones with a straight cutter and a "V" form I take it that you have to make an adjustment between the first and second roughing passes? Set up for the first pass, run the batch through, then make an adjustment to  close the gap a bit and run everything through again on the second side to have a completed roughed in piece. Same with the tip sections?  (Jimi Genzling)

I've never used a V beveller, but I would think you'd have to make several passes.  I know you do on a straight cutter type.  You're using what is called a "climb cut" with the router, (feeding in the same direction as cutter rotation) so it will try to throw the strip if you don't take a fairly light cut.  (Neil Savage)

I take a couple passes with my Bellinger double cutter rougher/taperer (is that a word?). If it had a bigger than 3/4 horse motor, I might consider a bigger cut.  (Bob Maulucci)

I have a Bellinger V beveler/taperer.  I set the cut to .05 above final dimension for butts and run all(tips and butts) the strips through.  I then heat treat as all strip are equal dimension.  I set the taper up for butts and run everything through, then make one adjustment for tips and run them through a second time.  This gets me close enough that I usually have to make less than 10 passes with a plane on my forms. Never had a strip thrown.  (Dennis Aebersold)

To avoid problems with a climb cut I suggest you make sure your V form is not to short and the hold downs are very firm. Most people that have a problem start off with to light of a hold down pressure and should have started  with the heaviest pressure first. The force of the hold downs should be strong enough you need to actually have a firm grasps and use a moderately heavy pull to get the strip through the machine. The bed length should be at least 15" in length to provide enough friction to hold the strip.  (Adam Vigil)

I built a Bellinger type beveler and am not having much luck with it.

I have not seen one in operation, missed it at SRG so I don't know what I am doing wrong. I took photos of the one Olaf had at the SRG and thought a made a real close copy. I started out with the cutters turning so they were cutting from the bottom up Got a few good strips but chewed up more than I like to waste. Shot a couple out like arrows. I have since made better hold downs. Changed the cutting direction to a climbing cut and increased the motor size to 3/4 and 3450 RPM. This is a newly rebuilt motor that a good list member brought to me. Now when I feed the strip, the cutters grab the strip and locks up. I have not had a lot of time to play with it so I would like any info that will set me on the right track.

Am I taking too deep a cut.  How many passes does it take to get a 60 degree strip. My strips are close to 1/4" wide.

What direction should the cutters be turning as the strip is fed into them.

I am feeding from the adjustable height side, I don't see that it matters but I could be wrong  (Tony Spezio)

I had a Bellinger beveller for a coupla years.  It was a fine piece of equipment but I sold it to a list member when I acquired a tapering mill.  I would make a couple of comments.  First, if I remember correctly, the Bellinger machine turned against the direction of feed.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Second, depth of cut should not be a problem.  The Bellinger I had would hog off as much cane as you could push through.  One thing that really helps is "pointing" the ends of the strips you feed into the cutters.  Use your belt sander to make a point on the first 1" or so of the strip, leaving the enamel side flat.  That makes it much easier to start the strips.  Till you get familiar with the machine, I'd recommend 2-3 passes per strip.  Once you get things figured out, one pass per strip should be no problem.

Third, good hold downs are the key.  They must be STOUT, and no more than 1" from the cutters.  In fact on the Bellinger machine, the hold downs could readily be raised into the cutters although that's a very bad idea.

Finally, there must be some  method of keeping the strip centered.  Bellinger uses a fence and spring set-up that works well with a little fiddling.

Of course, Olaf's machine was built by Hal Bacon.  While it's somewhat similar to the Bellinger, they're not the same.  (Harry Boyd)

I was looking at building a hex beveler like the one Tony Spezio wrote about in the July, 2006 (vol 24) issue of Power Fibers.

I have a specially made carbide tipped router bit for cutting 60 degree strips and would like to know if anyone built a similar one as described in the magazine.

I would like to know how much, if any, clearance is there from the cutting blades from the bed. Or is there a recess/allowance in the bed either side of the bamboo strip for the cutting blades so that the blades can cut right to the  enamel to give a true triangle shape?  I can't quite see from the photos, although there were many.  (Alfie Wee)

Get in touch with JW at jwflyrods.com.  Jerry sells a GREAT router bit.  It's a 61 degree, but it has replaceable carbide inserts for the cutters on it.  Not sure on the dimensions or width of cut, but I'm sure JW would be happy to fill you in.  I think he gets somewhere around $400 for these, maybe a little less, maybe a little more,  but they are TOP QUALITY and very accurate.  (Bob Nunley)

I got the router bit. just wanted to wanted to know the intricacies of Tony's beveler.  Guess I'll cut a recess in the feed bed.  I've completed draw filing my forms and am putting together the lathe bit cutter to started on the grooves.... got to give some time for the blisters on the thumbs to heal too! :)  (Alfie Wee)

Being a newbie I have been reading Thomas Penrose's ( thanks Thomas) handcrafting Planing Forms  and two basic questions arise , one of which, I believe, echoes the Flea's question:

"I would like to know how much, if any, clearance is there from the cutting blades from the bed."

I also want  know why steel as the base for the planing bed?

The puzzle is this :if there is a clearance, then wood would do it except for things like changes in moisture level in the wood messing up the measurements at the .001" level.  If there isn't, then how do we keep the steel from wipiing out the blade?

When I was first married, my wife asked me to pin up her dress and insisted that we have a reproducible 1/8" ( yep she's still like that). After the third or fourth spin and repinning, I said "Look this is cloth and you will never get it within that limit."  I feel the same way about worrying about thousandths deviation when the moisture content of the bamboo can vary., if that is the reason for steel.

SO I am puzzled.

Please help me clarify my thinking.  (Dave Burley)

Wood works fine, the only consideration is that if you get a major humidity fluctuation while you're planing a rod, you might want to double check your form settings. I used to use forms I made out of maple and they were very stable, but I live in southwest Colorado and the humidity doesn't change much here, it's dry all the time. Steel forms will dull your blade some on the final passes, but the usual cold rolled steel used for forms is much softer than any plane blade. The best solution I have found for keeping the blade off the form is to use a plane with a grove in the sole, either milled into it or built up from some kind of tape, that way you can keep the blade just barely above the form. A thousandth here or there may be overkill for tolerances in something made out of wood (or grass in our case), but the closer you can get the more likely you are to be able to make a particular taper again.   (John Channer)

I will be glad to answer your questions and maybe some better photos but I am just recovering from surgery and will not be able to get in the shop for the photos.

The strip is run through the beveler along a fence, there is no groove in the bed. The adjustable table is raised after a pass to get a deeper cut.

Note the black knob on the back side of the table. When I use it, all the strips are run through at one table setting. I normally make two or three passes on a strip to get a full 60 degree angle by turning the knob to raise the table. The table pivots at the front.. If I had a more powerful motor I could take a deeper cut and make less passes. If I have help to pull the strips through, it will save some time, if I am alone, frankly I can hand rough the strips in my metal forms just as quick if not quicker.

The nodes have to be flattened so that the cutters will not make a deeper impression cut at the nodes. I do not flatten the enamel side at this time( just the nodes), I do that close to final planing in the forms when the strips are narrow. Less power fibers are removed that way..

My cutters do recess into the plastic bed surface about 1/16 to 3/32" at fill table height so that the cutters do cut the full depth of the strip. With a slight modification of the table, I could make some generic taper boards to rough taper the strips but I am not interested in doing that. I like hand planing and that is how I still do it.

I would be interested in knowing more about the cutters you have.  (Tony Spezio)

Was actually trying to get more info on the hex beveller you wrote about making in Power Fibers vol. 24 July 2006.

I read and reread the article, unless I totally missed out something.

I have a router made for me that will do the job as per your article.  But I would like to know when you raise the bed to bring the bamboo strip to the cutters - do the cutters spin into a recess in the bed? because unless there is a recess or something to bring the strip up towards the cutters, you would not get the equilateral triangle.. am I right?  So what did I miss out?

Would really appreciate any clarification.  (Alfie Wee)

Yes you are correct, The first pass the angle is a bit off but by the time the final pass is made, the cutters are in the bed groove and the angle is a 60 degree angle. As the bed is raised, the strip gets closer to the center of the cutters. I had some concern about this and ran some strips through alternating the ends but found I do not have to do this to get an equilateral triangle. After all, it is a roughing beveler, if the angle is a bit off, it is trued up in the planing form. I really have no problem with this. It would be if it were a "finish" beveler.  (Tony Spezio)

I have a buddy that is considering building Tony Spezio's beveller from issue 24 of Power Fibers.  This version runs the 60 degree milling cutters on an arbor connected to the motor directly in contrast to other versions that utilize a shaft, pillow blocks, pulley, etc.  I have no experience with either type of setup.  He wants to know if running the cutters directly off the motor is recommended? Where is a good source for the cutters, and approximately how many strips will a set handle before they become dull?  (Ron Delesky)

I use a setup like that to rough mill my strips.  I like getting the accurate 60° angle to start.  I made an arbor adapter to fit the larger 1" hole through the Double Angle Milling Cutters that I buy from Enco.

If you have a metal lathe you can do it. I made my rougher from an old Chinese 3/4hp grinder motor. BTW these are the same cutters I use to rough mill my Planing Form tapered V-Grooves.  Made for metal cutting and not the most efficient for wood/bamboo cutting.  I don't know how long they last on bamboo.  I haven't dulled mine yet and they can be resharpened if you have access to a grinding shop.

I've never used them but I hear good things about the carbide cutters made by Forrest Maxwell for the router based roughing mills.   (Larry Swearingen)

HSS Double Angle mill cutters will last a LONG time for roughing. Don't even have to get the nice ones. You can get the $48.50 each import cutters from MSC and they'll last for more rods than most people are ever going to make. When they appear to get dull, take them off your rougher, but them in a container of Kerosene for 24 hours, and the oils and goo out of the bamboo will dissolve from the cutting edges and relief and they'll work great again. If they do get dull (evidenced by the strips being very hard to pull through the rougher), then hit the edges with a diamond file just enough to dress them up... so what if you change the angle by a few seconds or even a couple of minutes... This is a ROUGHING MILL cutter.  Rough is just that... rough! If you want to go overboard, you can get a $180 each TIN coated American Made cutters and may never have to even touch those up with a file.... guess what. Still going to get a ROUGH strip.

As a added note on durability, in a letter from one of the Golden Era makers to another, a conversation came up about Lyle Dickerson's cutters. This letter said that Dickerson was using HSS cutters and but sharpening and regrinding the angles himself. He was, again, according to this letter, getting approximately 20 rods out of a set of HSS cutters before they needed to be sharpened. Now that's 360 strips, but keep in mind, that's 360 FINISH quality strips. You can get probably 5 times that many rough strips out of a set before they need to be replaced

The MSC cutters are accurate to within about a half a degree. I feel sure that the cutters that Larry mentioned from Enco are the same... they may even be exactly the same cutter. Anyways, half a degree is plenty close enough for roughing strips.

As for mounting, YES, although many people recommend against it, it's fine to mount them on and adapter on the end of the motor shaft. Bellinger does it, I think Hal Bacon did it with his rougher, Kusse's rougher is mounted on the motor shaft, mine is (modified Bellinger, soon to even MORE modified). Now, by the time I get finished with this Bellinger Hand Planers friend, it may well use the motor to drive the cutters on an independent shaft with Pillow Blocks, but I'm going to do some drastic mods that may necessitate getting the motor out of the way and isolated from the cutters, BUT, mounting on the motor shaft is fine and will work great for roughing strips.

Back to the cutters... Keep in mind that these are not finish mill cutters... no way. I think I have about $48.50 per TOOTH in my finish mill cutters. Off the shelf Whitney Carbides, sent out to a custom tool shop to have them reground to EXACT angles. But these cutters will work very well for rough strips. They don't have to be dead on angle or exacting dimensions. They are ROUGH strips. Don't spend 500 to 700 on carbides or having them reground. Just use them right out of the box and expect nothing more out of them than to make rough strips.  (Bob Nunley)