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Rule

Last weekend I put ferrules  on  my  Dickerson  7612  using Ferrule-Tite and yesterday was trying a few test flexes after lapping them. Sure enough I kept hearing clicks as the tip flexed. I then dug into the tips and there the answer was. After fiddling with it tonight I have now narrowed the clicking down to the female --  I was really afraid I had overdone it on the male ferrules. Next step is to heat up the female, pull it off and reinstall it with a little more glue this time.

Now for the question -- the males fit tight enough that it compresses the air and it takes a few tries to get them to seat all the way and not work loose again from the pressure. Any fancy tricks for allowing the air to escape when the males are inserted?  (Larry Puckett)

    I score a line down the cane where the ferrule will sit with the point of a Stanley knife.  I think Tony Young told me about it and it makes a big difference.  (Mike Roberts)

      Guess I wasn't clear enough. What I'm talking about is the air compression when the male ferrule is inserted into the female. It compresses the air just like a piston in a cylinder and tries to push the ferrule back out. It can take several attempts before the air pressure bleeds out. Are my ferrules too tight or is there a trick like scoring a line in/on the male or female ferrule to allow the air out?  (Larry Puckett)

        That's a new one on me....  I've never been successful in fitting my males so closely that air pressure pushes them back out.  If it were me, I'd fit them a little more loosely.  The example I like to use is that correctly fit ferrules should require about the same pressure as it does to tighten your belt one notch more than is  really comfortable. (Harry Boyd)

          What it sounds like to me is the male or female has some muck in/on it and as you push the muck is not holding the ferules in place but does allow the ferrule to move like a piston with the muck acting like a compression ring on said piston. Sounds like it's an over dressed male??  (Tony Young)

        I have heard of this happening only one time before. Try sanding/filing just the tips of the male ferrules a hair. It sounds to me that they are a little tight and act as a plug for the rest of the ferrule.  (Marty DeSapio)

        I've had that happen quite often when using REC Uniferrules.  I take a knife and scrape a little flat spot down one side of the male.  It doesn't look great at first, but it works and usually fades away over time.  It doesn't take much.  (Bill Lamberson)

          OK, Bill wins the prize on this one. I grabbed a small file instead of a knife and filed a very small flat spot on one side of the ferrule. Now it goes in without the compressed air kickback and the fit is great, plus it still has that neat "POP" when you pull them apart. Chalk up another problem solved on Rodmakers.  (Larry Puckett)

    You got a perfect fit on your ferrules and you're not happy. I bet they make that perfect pop when you pull them apart also. As long as they go together and come apart easily, and don't come apart when casting, I leave them alone. I figure eventually enough scratches, oxidation, polishing, or wear, they will allow the air to escape and still have that pop when pulled apart.  (David Dziadosz)

      I think Larry is speaking of the piston action when he is GLUING the ferrule onto the blank, not when he is fitting the male/female ferrule together.  The melted glue seals the air into the ferrule and it does act like a piston.  One of the previous responses indicated scoring a line in the blank with a knife to serve as a channel for the air and glue to escape.  If your blank still has some portion of the flats remaining, scoring a line should not be needed.  Warm up the blank, and ferrule, melt the glue and apply firm steady pressure against the edge of the bench.  The glue will start to ooze out and if it starts to set. wave it back over the heat gun or alcohol lamp for a few seconds to warm things up.  Once the air works out you will hear a sharp popping sound.  (Kurt Clement)

        No, I was talking about when I insert the male ferrule into  the female -- see my other post above on the solution.  (Larry Puckett)

Rule

A few weeks ago a fitted two sets of ferrules to a rod I'm making for our local FFF club.  Like many of you, I've accumulated a good number of rod parts over the last few years.  Somewhere I picked up several sets of Rodon (Cortland) ferrules.   Just looking at them, they look very similar to CSE or Super Z ferrules, and appear quite well made.  In an attempt to economize and use some of the stock I have on hand, I used the Rodon ferrules.

All is fine with the butt-mid ferrule, or at least it seems so.  I haven't yet done the male-female ferrule fitting.  But the mid tip ferrule is another story.  After gluing and pinning the ferrules I noticed that the male would fit the female.  Rather snugly but it fit. I thought, "that's good, not so much dressing."  At least until I wiggled the rod.  When I wiggled the rod, I heard a distinct "click". Uh Oh.  After a little examination, it appears that the fit is okay right at the mouth of the female.  But the female appears to be larger at the bottom of the opening than it is at the welt.  Hmm?

I cannot think of any practical way to make this set of ferrules work.  But before I remove both sets of ferrules (both sets need to match, right?) and install new ones, I  thought I'd throw it out to you folks.  Any ideas?  Plating the male won't work, unless I redrill and ream the female.  With the ferrule already installed, that's not practical.  Not really a big deal, but an interesting dilemma none the less.  (Harry Boyd)

    Some clever person on this list wrote about making a ferrule tightener from a tubing cutter, replacing the cutting wheel with a small bearing of the same approximate diameter.  I made one of these, and it seems to work well if used carefully.  I think if you applied it just above the welt of the female it may solve the problem.

    It will scuff up the ferrule a little, so you will have to buff the outside.  Probably using it with a little oil would help. 

    I'd add that it will almost certainly damage the color on a blued ferrule.  (Frank Stetzer,  Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive)

      Also the careful use of a 3/8"  Jacobs chuck will tighten a loose female ferrule very nicely. The word is careful.  (Jack Follweiler)

    The trouble may be that there is excess solder at the mouth of the ferrule. Try to clean this area up by wrapping 600 grit paper around a dowel, so that it snugly fits inside the ferrule, and grind away.  If you can get a uniform loose fit, you may be able to swage the female down with your lathe chuck. A handy device to have around for these fun situations is an ID gauge. These have an adjustable ball at the business end, which can set to contact the inside of a hole. The gauge is then withdrawn and the width measured. In that way, you can figure out exactly what you are dealing with.  (I'm assuming you have checked the male with a micrometer to make sure it is not tapered)  (Tom Smithwick)

    I haven't tried it, but someone on the list a while back mentioned the idea of using the epoxy called J B Weld, I think it is, to build up the male, then turn it back down to size.  The stuff is tough as nails, so I suspect it would work and would wear well.  As for the cosmetics, that might be a problem for a show rod as opposed to personal use, but FWIW....

    I think super glue was also mentioned as a similar approach which might not be quite so obvious.  Don't know about th long term wear.

    Anyone with experience with either of these approaches might be better able to address how effective they might be, but thought I'd mention what came to mind.  (Ralph MacKenzie)

      I agree with Ralph that JB Weld is both durable and great stuff. Only one problem with it and that's the color. Dries a kind of battleship gray. Great glue though.  (Dewey Hildebrand)

      Since this rod will be seen by several hundred people, I don't want to try something that will look bad.  (Harry Boyd)

      I have good luck filling male full of sand and then hold ferrule in ferrule puller and then use a  butt end of drill bit and tap it a few times.  Thanks  (Dave Henney)

    The idea of a modified tubing cutter will work, but a low-tech solution I've used successfully is a couple of chunks of lead.  I have a couple of small lead ingots my brother gave me, but heavy sinkers or diving weights will work.  Use one as an anvil and one as a hammer.  Hold the female against the anvil and lightly tap it with the hammer as you rotate it.  Check the fit frequently as you go.  The lead is soft enough that it won't mar the ferrule and you can get very fine control of just where you tighten the ferrule. It's definitely worth trying to fix it.  What have you got to loose?  (Robert Kope)

    Are these the newer (Last 10 years) Rodon ferrules made by Cortland? If so I would replace all of them. I think you will find they are made out of soft 12 percent nickel silver tubing, not hard drawn.  Are they the same length as CSE ferrules? The older Rodon (Nothing wrong with these)  were longer. The newer ones match CSE nearly exact. I have seen many just as you have described.  I've found, that even with a perfect ferrule fit, the stress of casting will wear the females forcing them out of round. You can get by with replacing only the Female ferrules.  (Dave Kenney)

Rule

I finally buggered a ferrule.  Not sure what I did, but I have an idea.  I did it by hand and was careful to keep checking for a snug fit.  Got it fit and darned if there wasn't a click.  Actually more of a wobble than a click.  I think this happened as a result of working the sand paper up and down the ferrule.  Any thoughts?  Next ferrule I fit came out fine.  (Lee Orr)

    Did you have trouble with both males?  If so, the problem may well be a bad female.  I've had some problems in the last year or two with poor quality from more than one ferrule maker.  (Harry Boyd)

      I just dope slapped myself.  I forgot that I had a second male ferrule.  Actually I have two.  But that brings up another point.  The female had what looked like a slight lip and some galling from the drill bit.  I'll take off the male and give the 2nd one a try.  I lapped this ferrule same way I always do.  (Lee Orr)

    Press the undersized male in the jaws of your lathe's three jaw  chuck.  Make the ferrule out-of-round at three points.  This is the  method used by at least two production houses that I know of -- one being EC  Powell, and the other is still making rods.  I have never understood why people choose to press their female ferrules in  the lathe jaws.

    If you don't have a lathe, then I don't know what to say.  I don't  think a Jacobs Chuck will do the job.  (Chris Lucker)

      Just to complicate things a little more, do not be too quick in fixing the problem with the lathe jaw as Chris suggests. Incidentally, this method works well.

      Unfortunately the male ferrule can "grow" a little as the rod is exposed to the atmosphere and takes in moisture and a perfectly fitting ferrule can be too tight a couple of weeks later. Of course this does not happen all of the time (it usually happens on a perfect rod that you have given to someone important) just to make it more difficult.

      Leave the rod outside in the normal atmosphere for a week or two before you try altering the ferrule or else you can find yourself chasing your tail, so to speak. Guess  how I know.  (Ian Kearney)

Rule

I've got a clicking ferrule on a new rod. I started OK, but tried to slightly tighten the female with over-tight results  - my problem. So, I machined an aluminum rod to female internal dimension and then retightened with the rod inside;  then resized the male ferrule. Not as much clicking, but it still clicks. Do I just put on a new set of ferrules or is there some other magic approach?  (Frank Paul)

    I think that the bore of the female is not perfectly round, just wax the male and try that.  (Alan Taylor)

    Use some dripless candle wax. it's harder and will attract less dirt. wax works very good for loose ferrules. carry a candle in my vest for emergencies and ferrules.  (Timothy Troester)

    What's the ferrule-to-blank fit like?  Could be movement between the ferrule and the cane.  (Greg Dawson)

    I finally removed the ferrules from the bamboo rod and resized the males. I got a good seating pop when pulled apart, but they continued to demonstrate a definite clicking even when off the rod blanks. Anyway, after some frustration of trying a variety of approaches, I have just replaced the ferrules with a new set and chalked up the old ones to experience. Seems to me, if you create clicking ones the better part of valor is to just replace them and get on with rod making.  (Frank Paul)

      I was reading a back issue of "The Planing Form" the other day & saw Tim Abbot's idea of filling the male with something thick, such as heavy grease, one part of your 2-part epoxy etc. and forcing a solid rod into it to expand the male with hydraulic pressure.  I think it was September/October 2003. Might be worth a try to save a set.  (Neil Savage)

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